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  1. Dark Jedi's Avatar
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    Jul 11, 2008, 3:39 PM - Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #1

    So here is the story.

    Earlier this summer I began working on an Iron Man costume from plans that I found on 405.com (the Halo costume site) after about a moth of work I decided to sell it and cut my losses so I could start a new project.

    4 days into the auction I get a message from another ebay member saying that the suit was built from her plans and I need to end the auction immediatly or she would take legal action.

    So here are my questions:

    1.) is there anything leagaly she could do? Seems to me she couldnt because the plans are for a character owned my Marvel

    2.) What is the moral ground on this? I know if I took someones plans of props and remade them with the intent to sell that is pretty low of me. However, I would think that selling something I built off of plans that were in the public domain would be okay, especially since I only planned to build this suit once.

    Comments?
  2. TehEl1te's Avatar
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    Jul 11, 2008, 4:00 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #2

    Hmm... i honestly don't know... is she for sure they are her plans? Even so, she put them on that site for people to use right? It's not like your mass producing Ironmen and selling them on eBay, it was just one and you had a reason for it... if they play by those rules anyone who makes a costume based on another would be in the same boat... right? I mean making replica Fett buckets based off of the movie? Does she have those plans "copyrighted"? I dunno... im just kind of thinking aloud, sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed... heh.

    El1te
  3. I helped at SDCC '08 NovallTalon's Avatar
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    Jul 11, 2008, 4:08 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #3

    Well, for one she's already broken the copyright Marvel has on the character just by recreating it unless she has written permission.
  4. clonesix's Avatar
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    Jul 11, 2008, 5:11 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #4

    I would say the lady's claim is a joke, and she has no legal leg to stand on.


    You can either ignor her, report her to ebay, or if you want to play: reply asking for proof of copy right and wait for a response.
  5. SaxeCoburg's Avatar
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    Jul 11, 2008, 5:46 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #5

    Quote clonesix said: View Post
    I would say the lady's claim is a joke, and she has no legal leg to stand on.
    +1
  6. Ijaat Ka'rta's Avatar
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    Jul 11, 2008, 6:00 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #6

    I concer. She, even if they are her plans whcih i seriously doubt at this point, can't take any legal action against you scince she did, hypothetically,, post them on a website without a copyright, has no right to claim them as her own. It's not possible to have a real suit against you. I suggest you tell her where you got the plans and ask her for the copyright information. If she does have copyright information to the plans you used she should be more concerend with the site having them than you having already completed the armor. You could also say that its your own design if you really needed too. theres no ways she can say its not.
  7. Ijaat Ka'rta's Avatar
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    Jul 11, 2008, 6:02 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #7

    Also you built the suit for private purposes. You can't sue or take legal action against someone based on personal use, in most cases. I would say this is a scam.
  8. Hasid's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 6:48 AM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #8

    Well for one she will have to get permition from marval to do so and even then if she did she can only use them for themselves.

    If the plans were posted for everyone to see then she has no copyrights to it.
  9. Dougie Fett's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 7:26 AM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #9

    Yeah she is full of it, how could she ever prove it anyway.
  10. askywalker98's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 9:03 AM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #10

    I'd go with numero 2. It's your physical work.
  11. DarthCarcinus's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 9:46 AM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #11

    wow. This is something else. There are several factors to consider especially since the general work is copyright intellectual property. Kinda of like our Star Wars Costumes. It's such a thin gray line. I would suggest that you ask her to show you a copyright or patent, and if she can not produce it, I would ignore her. If she claims that it's intellectual property, ask her to show you her license for the work by the film maker. That should promptly shut her down. Like other's have said, it sounds like a scam.
  12. Gypsyboy's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 9:56 AM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #12

    Was it stated anywhere that the plans were copyright property? If so, can that be backed up legally in a case where the character is not even her own design? I doubt it.
  13. formerly LOPERO Scoutleader's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 1:16 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #13

    In a non hostil tone I would request to see her paperwork and or documents that she owns the copyright to the design of the suit in question.I would image that Marvel Inc. owns that and she has over stated her position on this matter.
    As for a moral issue of selling something you built from a set of designs that were "out there" for anyone to see and use.I dont see how morals would be a factor.
    You built something for yourself and you dont want it.Someone else might be willing to pay a "X" ammount to you for your proprety.
    I would feel that moarls(right and wrong) come into play when you decide what "X" is.For example if you have about $400 in you suit(just guessing) now should you sell that suit you dont want for $401 or more.But then again it is up to the person wanting the suit to decide how they will pay for it.
    If it came down to a moral question of selling something based on someone elses designs ....to quote you "I know if I took someones plans of props and remade them with the intent to sell that is pretty low of me." then a majority of prop builders here need to look at their moral "compass" and ask themselves if they are doing wrong.I dont feel they are or you have done anything wrong.This is the bases of free enterprise..make a product folks want and then sell it at a price folks will pay for it.
    As far as the Ebay problem I would contact Ebay and get their input and suggestion.I guess they have the final word if you can sell the suit on their site.
  14. Gypsyboy's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 3:15 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #14

    In my opinion charging more than (as hypothesised) $400 for something a person spent $400 to make is not even an issue - not "morally". The $400 just covers materials and maybe labour, it doesn't have anything to do with sentimental value. If a person wants to build something, they must have an interest in that thing. If a person wants to buy that same something, they must also have an interest in that thing. It's why things like antiques are so valuable. It's why a well-made prop will cost more than a poorly made one - even if the amt of materials and the hours of work that went into them are the same.

    That's how I see it anyway.

    In my opinion if a person bought said costume they would be paying for the materials, the work and the attachment fixed to that character/costume. How many of us here have paid more than the amt of materials and labour in a prop/costume because we REALLY WANTED IT!!??? The plans for the Iron Man costume were put in a public forum. If she didn't want people to use them to make stuff she shouldn't have posted 'em. If you make a costume from her plans she doesn't own that costume, you do. You can do with it as you please. You put the work into it, and you made the decision to sell it.
    Last edited by Gypsyboy; Jul 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM.
  15. mandosoldier's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 3:48 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #15

    by putting it up on a public domain she forgoes any claim to ownership she had over it. ALSO she does NOT own the rights to iron man, Marvel does, so simply respond by telling her to shove it in her ***, and any attempts at legal actions will be met with contacting Marvel and getting her into a FAR worse jam with them than she could ever get you into with her. Personally I ****ing despise these ********. Just because you create the "plans" to make a set of armor does not make it yours, unless the character it is based from is also yours. I could sit here and create a full life-sized rancor costume, but that does not make it "mine" and I could claim no rights over it if someone else saw my plans and made one themselves. Screw her, continue the auction, tell her to put up or shut up. Cause trying to initiate said legal action would cost her more in the longrun and woulst cost more after losing said action.
  16. gbeef's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 6:00 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #16

    yeah im sure marvel love to hear someone claiming property rights over Iron Man which she doesnt own!. You should be fine selling it, just list it as Iron costume. or somthing... also just state in the auction there paying for the service... if she really wants to get techincal and the materials are FREE!.. hahhaa
  17. whistle8mp's Avatar
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    Jul 12, 2008, 6:46 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #17

    I think it boils down to her getting envious that someone else is selling the same props she might have the foot hold on as of now. I would think its a scare tactic to brush you off so she can sell more props and such. My cousin is a civil lawyer so I'll have him write me up a over view for you and send it to you if you want. Let me know and I'll fax it to you.
  18. Dark Jedi's Avatar
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    Jul 24, 2008, 11:31 PM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #18

    Thank you everybody for the advise:

    What I ended up doing was ending the auction and then asked if I could sell it. her response was, "Ok, just remeber who made the plans next time"

    It was a really weird thing and the first time I ever had trouble on ebay. Hopefully I will be finding a permanet job in the near future and the days of selling my suits will finally be over.

    Thank you guys again!
  19. CombatBaby's Avatar
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    Jul 25, 2008, 9:22 AM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #19

    She had no right to request you to end the auction. She doesn't own the character, even if she made the plans.

    In order for her to have any rights over it, she'd need written approval of Marvel that she can even make the plans and how they would then be distributed.
  20. Studio Fett's Avatar
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    Jul 25, 2008, 10:30 AM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #20

    What a whack job....geez! Maybe she just wanted credit, sounds like if you would have put something like "based upon plans by "bossy-girl", she would'nt have minded, who knows.

    G-Fett
  21. Boomer Fett's Avatar
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    Jul 25, 2008, 10:59 AM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #21

    Just politely say, "Yes Ma'am." That way she can go back to licking windows...
  22. SlabFett's Avatar
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    Jul 26, 2008, 11:18 AM - Re: Moral, Legal questions concerning ebay #22

    I want to know what happened with this. Any news Dark Jedi?

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