Help,I am a BSS victim.

That kinda shatters some illusions I had about the 501st; basically, they're saying "We dont like recasting, it's wrong, but we don't really care if you do it." A hypocritical stance, if you ask me.
I realize that they are a volunteer organization, but you'd think they'd want quality membership instead of hacks who like to rip off other peoples' work and steal peoples' money.

Not that they don't care but that they can't do anything about it. Ripping people off is an issue for the law, not a costuming club.

They should have every right to ban him from the 501st for breaking the law, it's a perfectly legitimate reason for kicking anyone out of anything.

Kicking him out of the 501st does not prevent him from continuing to recast.

Nor will it prevent him from ripping people off. But it will stop people from associating the 501st with scumbags like this.

Most 501st members either a) already have a costume or b) have discussed with fellow garrison members the best place to get more costume parts, thus avoiding BSS as a whole. If 501st members don't do any research and fall victim to BSS through eBay or shady deals, then 'shame on them'. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it goes.

As for associating BSS with the 501st, the Legion does not promote his work in any way.

I'm not talking about 501st members. I'm talking about ordinary people who want to start their very own Boba Fett costume (maybe in hopes of joining the 501st). They fall victim to BSS, get their dreams crushed, and find out that the guy they got ripped off by is a member of an "elite" organization that does charity work for kids.


That doesn't make the 501st look too good.

The 501st Legions contains many people from many walks of life, many of whom with skeletons in their closet. Unless he is actively promoting his sales as endorsed or 'approved' by the 501st, the Legion has no recourse. He doesn't even claim his association with the 501st in his auctions.

The fact that he is a shady dealer AND a member of the 501st is nothing more than an unfortunate coincidence.

It would also be unfortunate (and a bit ridiculous) that someone might judge the Legion solely on this one bad apple, while not weighing the HUNDREDS of other good things we accomplish.

That is absolutely ridiculous. BSS doesnt have skeletons in his closet; he is actively parading them around. Since the 501st is now aware of him ripping people off, keeping him around is like condoning what he does. What if a member stole credit card numbers? Identity theft?
Yes, people who join the 501st already have costumes, but you can't tell me that each and every member will never make another one. BSS presents a risk to those who wish to create more than just the costume that they have.
As a final point, how wise is it to do charity work with a thief as one of your members?

*sigh*

See, BSS doesn't plaster his business on the side of his vehicle, he doesn't set up a booth at 501st events to sell his wares, and he doesn't advertise on any popular websites. He's flying under the radar just enough to avoid direct scrutiny, skeletons or not.

He is not doing anything to intentionally damage the 501st's reputation as a whole. Now, if he stole a 501st member's credit cards or identity, then yes, the Legion would kick him out in a heartbeat (and report him to the proper authorities).

This is simply a case where someone got ripped by an individual. It doesn't matter if the individual is a member of the 501st, the Boy Scouts, or the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. It's a law enforcement matter, not a Legion matter.

If the perp steals a car in the name of the Legion, then obviously there is cause for banishment.

Now, if the Legion decides to boot him for these allegations, then it will happen based on testimony from all parties concerned, beginning with his Garrison command staff. If they decide to handle it away from Legion HQ, then that's their call.

My point is, don't assume that it's the Legion's duty to enforce a ban on someone who hasn't disrupted 501st operations.

There are obviously disagreements with my opinion, so I will try to refrain from posting any further. To each his own.

Stealing credit cards is against the law, just as is stealing peoples' money. They pay him, and never recieve their stuff. That is illegal. It's fraud.

He's also not flying low enough to avoid scrutiny, because here we are, people know about him, 501st members included.

He is stealing money, not in the name of the Legion directly, but selling Star Wars props while being part of a SW community is relevance enough.



No further questions, the defense rests, party at my house :cheers

batninja said:

*sigh*

See, BSS doesn't plaster his business on the side of his vehicle, he doesn't set up a booth at 501st events to sell his wares, and he doesn't advertise on any popular websites. He's flying under the radar just enough to avoid direct scrutiny, skeletons or not.

He is not doing anything to intentionally damage the 501st's reputation as a whole. Now, if he stole a 501st member's credit cards or identity, then yes, the Legion would kick him out in a heartbeat (and report him to the proper authorities).

This is simply a case where someone got ripped by an individual. It doesn't matter if the individual is a member of the 501st, the Boy Scouts, or the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. It's a law enforcement matter, not a Legion matter.

If the perp steals a car in the name of the Legion, then obviously there is cause for banishment.

Now, if the Legion decides to boot him for these allegations, then it will happen based on testimony from all parties concerned, beginning with his Garrison command staff. If they decide to handle it away from Legion HQ, then that's their call.

My point is, don't assume that it's the Legion's duty to enforce a ban on someone who hasn't disrupted 501st operations.

There are obviously disagreements with my opinion, so I will try to refrain from posting any further. To each his own.

Click to expand...

So, because BSS doesnt rip off 501st members, he's allowed to stay? That's the same as BSS being a member of TDH, but being allowed to stay because he doesnt rip off TDH members.
You would think that an individual would be ousted for breaking the law in such a fashion; in many quality groups, this would have been done. A group like the 501st or TDH are not law-enforcement agencies, agreed, but they have a certain responsibility regarding their members.

And to make things clear, I am not arguing against your opinion, here; I am arguing against the 501st's stance on the issue. I think it's irresponsible and wrong.

Boba_Fett_03 said:

So, because BSS doesnt rip off 501st members, he's allowed to stay? That's the same as BSS being a member of TDH, but being allowed to stay because he doesnt rip off TDH members.

Click to expand...

If BSS were still a member of TDH, and was ripping off his local church, then no, TDH wouldn't lift a finger to ban him from TDH as it would not be considered a TDH matter. It would be up to the local church to inform law enforcement and prosecute from there. If it were determined that I routinely steal the neighborhood kids' lunch money, would TDH ban me? On what grounds?

As I mentioned before, the fact that BSS is a 501st member and a prop-making thief is an unfortunate coincidence of hobbies. But in our current legal system under the Constitution, a person is innocent until proven guilty. As such, this is a matter between the victim and the accused until the verdict is determined.

Even were the Legion to kick him out, then what? If the victim does not prosecute, he is still free to recast, swindle and steal. The banishment from the 501st would've accomplished nothing since BSS deals mostly on eBay to unsuspecting customers. Most 501st members know to stay away.

I am in no way defending BSS' actions (there are special rooms in heck for people like this), I simply want to reiterate that the 501st has no legal standing in the issue.

One more thing...I hold no ill will against anyone who differs in opinion from me. These opinions are mine, and I would like to think that they are correct. No matter what the outcome, I think we may all learn a thing or two about the Legion's responsibility, and I look forward to the resolution, right or wrong. I have faith that all debaters feel the same way.

Seacrest out!

Well said Eric and its exactly what I've been trying to say. If people truly have a problem with BSS then they should contact the local authorities and deal with it from there. If you were ripped off by someone who sold you something on Ebay should he be fired from his job for it?

That being said, the person in question is a member of the 501st who is NOT in good standing. He has in affect been MIA and is not in contact with his local Garrison. His Garrison CO is in discussions about it with other folks and they are working on a solution from the 501st's stand point. If they deem there is enough evidence to proceed with expulsion from the Legion then they will do so. That's up to them. There is ZERO reason to debate it here on TDH considering this is NOT a 501st discussion forum. If you have issue with how the 501st police's itself then by all means bring it to the Legion Commander's attention. His contact information is quite easy to find on 501st.com and I'm sure if he gets your email he'd be happy to write back to you. BTW, the LCO (Mark Fordham) is a member of BSS's home Garrison and should be quite familiar with the situation.

Thank you.

batninja said:

If BSS were still a member of TDH, and was ripping off his local church, then no, TDH wouldn't lift a finger to ban him from TDH as it would not be considered a TDH matter. It would be up to the local church to inform law enforcement and prosecute from there. If it were determined that I routinely steal the neighborhood kids' lunch money, would TDH ban me? On what grounds?

Click to expand...

While we won't get into a TDH/501st debate, I do want to make one point in regard to TDH's stance on criminal activity outside this board. TDH is not a bubble, isolated from the rest of the world. Your actions in your personal life COULD affect your membership here. For example: we do not want pedophiles here. Does someone molesting a child have anything to do with costumes or props? No, but we simply do not want that type of individual here at TDH. What grounds would we ban a convicted pedophile on? There is nothing in the Code of Conduct about it, but we would ban a pedophile to help ensure the protection of the members of this board and to ensure that this board remains a relatively safe place for minors/families to enjoy.

Do not take this stance to an extreme and think that TDH is interested in or scrutinizing the personal lives of its members. It is not. However, there are instances in which we would respond to events that that took place outside the confines of this board.

On a final note, you are welcome to disagree with how the 501st handles its affairs, but lets not allow this to degenerate into a 501st bashfest. The 501st does a lot of good, but, much like every organization, including TDH, it has its problems and its problem members.

D