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  1. jodo's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 10:13 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #101

    I just want to post in here before it gets locked.
  2. A'den Kyramud's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 10:25 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #102

    HOOAH!!!
  3. Jul 7, 2009, 10:39 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #103

    Quote Heatshock said: View Post
    j.kast - I see you have experienced being recasting. What would have happened if you had done a Star Wars item. It got recasted by someone in the Legion whose identity was known. But not only your CO, but the leadership at large - all said :
    "oh yes, its bad, we do have a stance which is to say its bad, but we arent going to do anythign abt it. sorry." that just doesnt seem right does it?
    but again - you have every right to an opinion.

    I am not a member of the 501 - but I would support your petition; point me in the right direction mate.

    Nate
    That is why I no longer make replicas for the public. Even in the superhero community there was no real stance, so yes I agree that isn't right.
    What I grow tired of are the blanket statements that basically say you are part of that group so you are a recaster as well. That is how I see this shirt.

    Evo, why not change the design? Why so heck bent for leather for this one?
  4. EVO3's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 11:25 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #104

    Quote j.kast not dead yet said: View Post
    That is why I no longer make replicas for the public. Even in the superhero community there was no real stance, so yes I agree that isn't right.
    What I grow tired of are the blanket statements that basically say you are part of that group so you are a recaster as well. That is how I see this shirt.

    Evo, why not change the design? Why so heck bent for leather for this one?
    Who said i was heck bent on the design? I think the shirt has done enough to bring this subject into the light and i didnt even have to spend a dime. I'll have to thank anyone one here that blew it this out of proportion. As i said earlier, this was a shirt making a comment about a costuming club, not a pro terrorism shirt for cryin out loud.

    Im all for helping out the 501st in anything that i can. Always have and always will. I would just like to see the same in return. Not just for me, but for anyone else that supplies members with items needed to complete their costumes. If i was only into this for the money, then you would see ""for sale" threads from me selling my helmets everywhere including Ebay. Fact is, i dont. The stuff that comes out of my shop is pretty limited, and i am not a money making factory as some might think.

    This has gone way beyond a shirt design that never was. Its about adding something in the charter to sway potential future recasters from doing what they do. There is already something in the charter about members stealing from other members, so this isnt a stretch. This isnt about a "Witch Hunt" as some have said. Its about modifying a charter. The rest will work itself out.
  5. Gilmortar's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 11:31 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #105

    Quote EVO3 said: View Post
    This has gone way beyond a shirt design that never was. Its about adding something in the charter to sway potential future recasters from doing what they do. There is already something in the charter about members stealing from other members, so this isnt a stretch. This isnt about a "Witch Hunt" as some have said. Its about modifying a charter. The rest will work itself out.
    Billy steals from George. Franky steals what Billy stole from George.

    Who gets punished?

    Thats going to be the debate...just saying...
  6. Jul 7, 2009, 11:31 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #106

    ok then i ask if that was the goal why not work on a proposal and petition it to be changed? Why cause all this outrage?
  7. Kwally89's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 11:52 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #107

    Quote j.kast not dead yet said: View Post
    ok then i ask if that was the goal why not work on a proposal and petition it to be changed? Why cause all this outrage?
    Ummm, I think all this outrage DID get his point across. Maybe the design of the shirt didn't display a message that EVERYONE liked, but it is the truth. Of course not all 501st members support recasting, but I was told that I would be banned from multiple forums (including 501st-based) if I called out a recaster. I didn't care and did it anyway. That goes to show you that the 501st AS A WHOLE doesn't care if you bought or produced recasts. That is not right my friends! Not right at all!

    It makes me sick that 501st CO's request costume parts for recasting and say that the maker "should be flattered that others recast it". Those people are complete scum !

    I, for one, am sick of people making comments like "none of us have rights to LFL intellectual property" or "all replica propmaking is illegal". That stuff gets REALLY old. We all know there is a HUGE difference between making a replica Boba Fett helmet from scratch and selling some casts from slapping some silicone on a FPH and selling them. Gain some commonsense people!

    Would I buy one of EVO3's shirts? No because I live in Iowa...there is no 501st close (Minneapolis, I think). Do I support what he is trying to accomplish? You bet I do! People who are 501st members and are against recasting shouldn't be condemning this guy; you all should be backing him up! Maybe change the design a bit, but the point is that the 501st as a whole allows and supports recasters. Who cares if there rules say that they don't condone it or whatever. We all know that is bull and have seen it firsthand.

    I love what the 501st does for charity and children, but I will only say this once my friends: the end NEVER justifies the means.

    Kody
  8. stormtrooperguy's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 11:57 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #108

    anyone offering to write up a faq about recasting? we can try to get it prominently placed on the legion board. if nothing else, that will reduce the legitimacy of anyone's claims of ignorance.
  9. Boomer Fett's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 12:07 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #109

    Quote Gilmore of OK said: View Post
    Billy steals from George. Franky steals what Billy stole from George.

    Who gets punished?

    Thats going to be the debate...just saying...

    Shut up Billy!!!
  10. EVO3's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 12:40 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #110

    Quote Gilmore of OK said: View Post
    Billy steals from George. Franky steals what Billy stole from George.

    Who gets punished?

    Thats going to be the debate...just saying...
    I love it. "X" prop maker comes out with a new item and everyone gets buddy buddy with him. Then when "X" prop maker asks for help to set up rules against recasting he gets told to shut up and go home. Awesome! What a way to treat the people that give you what no other Licensed dealer can.
  11. Gino's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 1:07 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #111

    Quote Gilmore of OK said: View Post
    Billy steals from George. Franky steals what Billy stole from George.

    Who gets punished?

    Franky gets punished.
    Everyone on any of these prop forums accepts Billy's stealing or they wouldn't be here. Period. If not, then you might as well shut down all the prop forums everywhere.

    It's the prop/costuming community's responsibility to police itself (because no one else can) and make sure Franky can't steal from Billy anymore.

    Otherwise, in the future it won't be worth it for Billy to invest his time and money to bring something new to the community. And all you'll be left with is Franky's sloppy seconds.

    .
  12. Kwally89's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 1:27 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #112

    Ya...but Billy originally stole from George soooo Billy and Franky should be punished. George is the good guy. No one should buy Billy or Franky's stuff.

    Let's look at it like this: if Billy is half as old as 14 year old George who is two years older than Franky, how long until Billy and Franky can be tried as adults? Hahaha! When I first read it, it sounded like a bad elementary word problem.

    Kody
  13. Admin Staff webchief's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 1:27 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #113

    Quote EVO3 said: View Post
    Its funny to me how passionate some of you about me using the 501st logo on the shirt. Telling me i cant use it because it belongs to the 501st and that i'll get sued for using the image. Well, how about if i pull the IP card on you?? They dont own it, just like i dont own the IP rights to anything that i sculpt. *** for tat, right? That was the whole point of the shirt all along. A little bit of hypocrisy exposed there for ya. Its funny how it all works for one side, isnt it? The impact of the shirt was made before it was ever even printed.
    Actually, that's where you're sorta wrong. The 501st uses that logo and it's design with the express permission of LFL. Sued? Doubtful... Strongly suggested that you not do it? Highly likely.
  14. Gino's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 1:34 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #114

    Quote Kwally89 said: View Post
    Ya...but Billy originally stole from George soooo Billy and Franky should be punished. George is the good guy. No one should buy Billy or Franky's stuff.
    If it wasn't for Billy, all you would have is Rubies.
    Support Billy, and see the continued flow of cool and rare stuff made available in the future.
    Don't support Billy and see how many new things come down the pike.

    All of the best known makers here on this (and other) forum are Billys.


    .
  15. thundrkiss's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 1:39 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #115

    You said it Bro!
    Now everyone straighten their panties...
    Quote Kwally89 said: View Post

    It makes me sick that 501st CO's request costume parts for recasting and say that the maker "should be flattered that others recast it". Those people are complete scum !



    Would I buy one of EVO3's shirts? No because I live in Iowa...there is no 501st close (Minneapolis, I think). Do I support what he is trying to accomplish? You bet I do! People who are 501st members and are against recasting shouldn't be condemning this guy; you all should be backing him up! Maybe change the design a bit, but the point is that the 501st as a whole allows and supports recasters. Who cares if there rules say that they don't condone it or whatever. We all know that is bull and have seen it firsthand.

    I love what the 501st does for charity and children, but I will only say this once my friends: the end NEVER justifies the means.

    Kody
  16. Kwally89's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 1:43 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #116

    Quote Gino said: View Post
    If it wasn't for Billy, all you would have is Rubies.
    Support Billy, and see the continued flow of cool and rare stuff made available in the future.
    Don't support Billy and see how many new things come down the pike.

    All of the best known makers here on this (and other) forum are Billys.


    .
    Ummm, why aren't you buying from George. Billy STOLE George's stuff...or are we saying that George is Mr. Lucas? I was thinking that George was just a maker....well, that could change everything. Nevermind!

    Kody
  17. Gino's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 1:46 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #117


    Yes George is supposed to be GEORGE.
    Had me worried for a moment.
  18. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 2:34 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #118

    I dunno... I know some "billies" who like to get their pieces and then dangle them in front of everyone else, but hold them just out of reach... teasing them "little people" and not making the masses very sympathetic to Billy. Just saying... those guys are out there...
  19. Gino's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 2:44 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #119

    Yeah but surely that doesn't warrant recasting them?
    Making it hard to feel sympathy is somewhat understandable but they shouldn't be denied that same protection from the community. Perhaps if the community supported them more, they would soften in their stance.
    Just food for thought.

    Although, I feel those types represent a small portion of those who do create and share with good intentions.


    .
  20. Boomer Fett's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 2:53 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #120

    Okay, so Billy, George and Frankie walk into this bar...wait...Billy has a duck under one arm...wait a second...Frank has the duck and George walks with a limp...sorry, George is fine but Billy walks funny...yeah thats right...So they are in a bar and the bartender says...wait, no, the waitress says...man I suck at jokes!! Okay so Billy says..."Isn't that a recast duck???"...
  21. Gino's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 3:20 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #121

  22. Member Since
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    Jul 7, 2009, 3:34 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #122

    Quote j.kast not dead yet said: View Post
    That is why I no longer make replicas for the public. Even in the superhero community there was no real stance, so yes I agree that isn't right.
    What I grow tired of are the blanket statements that basically say you are part of that group so you are a recaster as well. That is how I see this shirt.
    thats kinda the point isnt it j.kast? you have stoped making stuff cos of the lack of action to protect a maker. we certainly wont want that happening in the SW world do we?

    dont think EVO was tryin to say that you personally ARE a recaster. It is merely implying that the 501 is supporting recasting by it conspicuous lack of action. the 501 has an opportunity to set a standard, to protect its makers, to encourage its members to avoid recasters - but doesnt. I just dont understand.

    I think it isnt so much that u are a recaster cos u are in the 501, but by the fact that the 501 takes no action against recasters reflects on inviduals within it

    whats the point of having a statement - but having no action to follow through on it? for instance - the marines have a motto; semper fi isnt it? if they we constantly showing that they were NOT 'always faithful' whats the pont in the statement. The thing is the Marines follow through a motto with action. the 501 chooses not to.

    Billy steals from George. Franky steals what Billy stole from George. Who gets punished? Thats going to be the debate...just saying...
    typical recasters logic. kinda surprised its still used in prop circles to be honest? I mean - we all know we thread that fine line. to me thats not gonna be the debate. we ARE all illegal in a court of law. but come one - like kwally was sayin, we are all (well I know there are kids here too - but u know what I mean) adults here. there is a difference between an original maker/scratch builder and a dirty recaster isnt it?

    In a way its irrelevant if the t-shirt is made - as EVO said, its simulated debate, its allowed people to air views.

    Stormtrooper guy - I'd happy to be invovled in arecasting statement, cos I know it would be difficult to get one together? u thinking of a grp effort with open posting on a thread on TDH u think? or private emails and pms?
    oh btw - yes its commendable that you are ok with people recasting ur stuff. but that in a way is NOT bad recasting, cos you have given your explicit permission isnt it. It probably is realistic and practical view to have; I commend you and support your decision, but not all other artist and sculptors agree with that. As always - I am on the side of the maker

    Nate
    Last edited by Heatshock; Jul 7, 2009 at 7:36 PM.
  23. I helped at SDCC '08 NovallTalon's Avatar
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    Jul 7, 2009, 3:57 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #123

    Quote Heatshock said: View Post
    dont think EVO was tryin to say that you personally ARE a recaster. It is merely implying that the 501 is supporting recasting by it conspicuous lack of action. the 501 has an opportunity to set a standard, to protect its makers, to encourage its members to avoid recasters - but doesnt. I just dont understand.
    From what it looks like, the RL already set the standard for kicking people out who recast. Seems more like EVO and some others just want the 501st to take the same stance so there's more of an even keel.

    What it boils down to in my opinion is that the 501st should go the way of taking a proactive stance in punishing recasters that members can prove solidly. This way, the legion council doesn't have to spin it's wheels policing, but can conduct investigations based on evidence.

    The policing IMHO should always lie with the members of the organization. If they want a strong and honest club then it's up to them to protect it. However it's the council's responsibility to create healthy policies as well as enforce them when needed.
  24. Member Since
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    Jul 7, 2009, 7:57 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #124

    NOvall - I couldnt agree more. IN fact - the policing by the membership already goes on I feel. But then even when info is presented up; no action is taken. Which I feel is what is wrong with the current stance.

    ok so EVO's point wasnt very subtley made, but it was made nonetheless. I sincerely hope J.kast peition to change the charter and stormtrooper guys recasting statement project are successful.

    Nate
  25. Jul 7, 2009, 8:14 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #125

    Well I am happy to say things are moving forward.

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