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  1. tubachris85x's Avatar
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    Jul 5, 2009, 10:51 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #26

    I fully support EVO3. Having seeing his work in person and meeting the guy, I can attest to his dedication, hardwork, and devotion to not only the proping community, but extensively for the 501st, especially for charity
  2. slave1pilot is offline slave1pilot
    Jul 5, 2009, 10:53 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #27

    Quote mrbungle said: View Post
    then change the policy like i said. because that is not good enough.
    Not good enough for whom?
    You?
    if you don't agree with it, then renounce your membership.
    if you already are not a member, then keep quiet about how other people run thier clubs.
    that's be like me telling the Rebel legion how to run their club
  3. mrbungle's Avatar
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    Jul 5, 2009, 10:59 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #28

    Quote slave1pilot said: View Post
    Not good enough for whom?
    You?
    if you don't agree with it, then renounce your membership.
    if you already are not a member, then keep quiet about how other people run thier clubs.
    that's be like me telling the Rebel legion how to run their club
    because i do not agree with every rule of the group means i can't belong to a group??

    says who , you??
  4. slave1pilot is offline slave1pilot
    Jul 5, 2009, 11:02 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #29

    Yep, says me.

    seriously though
    If you have issues with the Legion, perhaps you should take those up with the Legion

    If you've already done that and have not gotten a result that suits you, then it is possible that you might want to reconsider your membership.
  5. Jul 5, 2009, 11:05 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #30

    my only point is, to me, its slandering the group. EVO has the right to his opinion, and i do agree recasters suck. The problem is, there will be recasters everywhere you go in this hobby, so singling out the 501st to me is wrong, thats all im saying. Im sure there are recasters not in the 501st...or on say...the RPF...what about them?...why single out the 501st? You can get your point across just the same by making an anti-recasting shirt that doesnt have ANY other groups name on it. A shirt with that type of design would of course include ANY recasters, including any within the 501st without offending the honest propmakers or members of the 501st. i would buy that in a second. Do you see my point here? By creating this design, you are singling out and slandering the group as a whole.
    If you feel the policies are wrong, slandering will get you nowhere. Talk to people within the legion that can make a difference, explain what you just said to them, instead of throwing low blows. i whole heartedly agree with your views EVO, just not the idea of this shirt
    Last edited by Darth Voorhees; Jul 5, 2009 at 11:13 PM.
  6. formerly LOPERO Scoutleader's Avatar
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    Jul 5, 2009, 11:06 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #31

    Quote slave1pilot said: View Post
    anyone else note the irony of using the 501st's logo to sell an an "anti-recasting" shirt?
    Yeah I have been thinking the same thing.
    Once again Darth V nails it and I agree with Sgt.Skirata no good can come from this thread.This is an issue that will never be resolved....especially here.
  7. EVO3's Avatar
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    Jul 5, 2009, 11:09 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #32

    Quote slave1pilot said: View Post

    anyone else note the irony of using the 501st's logo to sell an an "anti-recasting" shirt?
    EVO3 doesn't have the rights to, nor did we spend the time and effort to create the logo.
    Yeah, thats the point of the shirt. The irony was intentional.
  8. Formerly Dubkid Corrose's Avatar
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    Jul 5, 2009, 11:11 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #33

    Wow, I was the founding member of Star Garrison and was CO for 10 years before I stepped down and became inactive because of how political it was starting to get. In my 10 years of leading and trooping, both in Star Territory and other Garrison territory I met literally hundreds and hundreds of great members, their families and friends and never met a member myself that was a recaster.

    As someone who poured a decade of time, love and energy into that organization, I find the shirts (in my opinion) to be counter productive to what the 501st is supposed to be doing. Making a statement that 501st members support recasting is a blanketed and unfair to all the others that aren't involved in recasting and have their hearts in the right place with doing charity and community work.

    I don't know all the parties involved so I preface this by saying I could be wrong but what it sounds like is happening is someone makes props and makes money off of them, someone in the 501st recast his work and now he wants the entire legion to pay for someone's actions? If so, that sucks but you dont blame an entire organization for choices of a few bad eggs.
  9. slave1pilot is offline slave1pilot
    Jul 5, 2009, 11:16 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #34

    Quote EVO3 said: View Post
    Yeah, thats the point of the shirt. The irony was intentional.
    oh...
    Don't I look foolish.
  10. Jul 5, 2009, 11:34 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #35

    well people do have their own opinion and evo is entitled to his form of art weather you agree or not its his right and jumping down his throat is being closed minded and unfair.......I've said my piece
  11. EVO3's Avatar
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    Jul 5, 2009, 11:34 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #36

    Just for the record, this shirt isnt directed at all 501st members. I know there are plenty of members that support prop builders. It is mostly directed at the CS staff for walking the political fence on this issue. For Albin to say that theres no way he can find out whos recasting what is a cop out. I know where the recsters are. On the same note, each garrison knows if they got a recaster in their backyard or not. So gimme a break.

    Again, if its so impossible to enforce discipline against recasters, then the Rebel Legion is doing the impossible.
  12. formerly old_jedi_mind_trick Bobby Fett UK's Avatar
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    Jul 5, 2009, 11:41 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #37

    I must admit EVO3 has a point here and I agree with Darth Voorhees. I still don't like the shirt but if it not one gets printed the message is out there that some members support a tougher stance on recasting and would like more done.

    There must be some middle ground here?
  13. I helped at SDCC '08 TK-Devo's Avatar
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    Jul 5, 2009, 11:56 PM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #38

    Quote EVO3 said: View Post
    For Albin to say that theres no way he can find out whos recasting what is a cop out. I know where the recsters are. On the same note, each garrison knows if they got a recaster in their backyard or not. So gimme a break.
    Word
  14. I helped at SDCC '08 GCNgamer128's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2009, 12:28 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #39

    Simply don't buy from recasters. People who buy from them support them, why not make a T-Shirt about that?
  15. I helped at SDCC '08 TK-Devo's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2009, 12:32 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #40

    Quote GCNgamer128 said: View Post
    Simply don't buy from recasters. People who buy from them support them, why not make a T-Shirt about that?
    Exactly
  16. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2009, 12:43 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #41

    I can understand the frustration that spawned this shirt, but making and offering the shirt will not change the situation. It will only further divide and splinter people. One of the great things about TDh is its sense of community and comradery. I have plenty of issues with the 501st on a personal level, but I also realize that some of the very best members we have here at TDH are 501st members. I think this will only serve to unjustly villanize them and ostacize them from a community that needs them and that they contribute to in a major way.

    Evo3, I have all the respect in the world for you as a sculptor, but the group with which you hang and the group that is pushing these kind of things have already alienated themselves from TDH. Not sure why this issue is being brought here and why an issue is being created here.
  17. cr4nky's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2009, 12:47 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #42

    I find the t-shirt a little tasteless, I understand the point of view and the idea, and support the need to tread the recasters down. But, even though it's not meant to slag the entire 501st, it still does whether you mean it to or not. Which I feel isn't fair in regards to everyone in the 501st who doesn't support recasters.

    Could the Legion have a tougher line when it comes to dealing with recasters within their ranks? Definately!

    Could the t-shirts possibly be made to convey the "true" message, that this is a statement made agains the CS staff? Probably.

    I'd buy a shirt like this, if it didn't lable the entire 501st as supoprters of recasting.
    Just my 2 cents.
  18. Jul 6, 2009, 12:50 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #43

    They havn't said they can't they said that it is outside the charter of the club to police it.

    I agree with Darth Voorhees this design single us out as a group, a group you belong to by your own admission, and calls us all recasters in a blanket statement. Have you thought of starting a petition to change the policy?
    Heck I would sign it if you did. As for this shirt it does more harm than good IMHO.

    I have had my stuff recasted in the past, if anyone wondered. That is why I find the blanket statement so offensive.
  19. Member Since
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    Jul 6, 2009, 12:55 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #44

    You know the shirt is funny, what happend to everyones sense of humor?

    Quit getting all offended whenever there is a percieved slight to the legion.
  20. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2009, 12:59 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #45

    You are free to continue debating the recasting issue if you like but we have decided not to allow this shirt to be sold here. Regardless of whether or not the shirt is true or humorous, we are not going to allow something that is so inflammatory to so many and that serves no other purpose than to divide this community. If you choose to continue to debate, keep it respectful.
  21. CombatBaby's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2009, 3:05 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #46

    can someone explain to me how the 501st is doing something different than the rebel legion as far as recasting?

    i don't get what exactly is meant by that.... does it just mean someone that is a known recaster is not allowed to be a member of the rebel legion and the 501st still accepts? or does it have to do with having recasted parts as part of your costume?




    i guess i'm just confused about why this is a huge debate.....fight...whatever you want to call it
  22. thundrkiss's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2009, 5:09 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #47

    "NO SHIRT FOR YOU !"
  23. Jul 6, 2009, 5:54 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #48

    Quote thundrkiss said: View Post
    "NO SHIRT FOR YOU !"


    Thanks to all who understood my point.

    Evo, if you make an anti-recasting shirt that doesnt specify any particular group, ill be all over it..as im sure many of us would be.
    Last edited by Darth Voorhees; Jul 6, 2009 at 6:12 AM.
  24. Jul 6, 2009, 6:06 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #49

    Quote CombatBaby said: View Post
    can someone explain to me how the 501st is doing something different than the rebel legion as far as recasting?

    i don't get what exactly is meant by that.... does it just mean someone that is a known recaster is not allowed to be a member of the rebel legion and the 501st still accepts? or does it have to do with having recasted parts as part of your costume?




    i guess i'm just confused about why this is a huge debate.....fight...whatever you want to call it
    Its basically,if the rebel legion finds out amember recasting someone elses work,they will discharge you from the legion.

    The 501st to put it simply,does not do this. They state they do not condone or support recasting though. Do i think they should do what the rebel legion is doing, sure i think it would be a good idea, i just dont think a t-shirt like this would help any.

    It has nothing to do with having re-cast parts on your costume. Though i always buy from noteable vendors i know offer original work. I have owned recast parts in the past,but didnt know when i bought them...it was early on with my costuming/501st experience. Now i know better,and know who makes what and its easier to avoid and not support the recasters.Simply put, do your homework, find out who makes what your looking for,and support those artists and not the recasters. that will flush them out of the legion. unfortunately its near impossible to stop them completely, but they can be flushed out of the legion simply with knowledge.

    Now,i am done with this issue, i didnt start costuming, or join the 501st to debate...i do this cuz its fun for me, and id like to keep it that way so over and out people!
    Last edited by Darth Voorhees; Jul 6, 2009 at 6:11 AM.
  25. Gypsyboy's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2009, 7:31 AM - Re: Debate of EVO3s shirt design #50

    I think the issue of recasting should be one that is kept inside the walls, so to speak. By putting the opinion on a T-shirt it suddenly becomes a public political movement, which is not what the 501st is about. I don't support recasting, but this shirt does not resonate with me. This is not a 501st shirt - this is a personal rant shirt. It is the same thing as wearing a "501st" T-shirt that says something like "We really don't like Jo Wassisname because he said something that hurted our widdle feewings at the last event".

    Nope. I don't think this is a good political move as a 501st effort. Dealing with recasters needs to be done in a different way. Just using these forums as a way to educate the potential buyers is probably the best way to go.

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