Question: The Death of TDH... and other forums

[Art Andrews]

We briefly touched on this in another thread, but am I the only one seeing a coloration between the rising interest in social media like facebook and twitter and the decline of forums like TDH, the RPF, and other forums? I know the economy is killing many right now and that is causing people to be more focused on work than posting, but I have also noticed that many of those same people are posting away on facebook and not posting in forums as much.

I really wonder if forums have seen their heyday and even if the economy bounces back, we will see discussion forums continue to decline as social media sites continue to grow.

Am I think only one thinking we are on the brink of a major shift?

[runJEDIrun]

i will always be here at TDH lol.

[Art Andrews]

Check this out. In Jan, TDH had its most successful month ever in terms of activity... but notice this trend over the last 100 days. This is a charts of posts per day. While it is up and down like mad (mostly differentiating week days from weekends when there are less posts), I think you can see a pretty significant trend.

[Jango's kid]

Mmmm...maybe??? As long as folks need to get parts or find info on how to build/paint something, I'm sure the forums will remain is some capacity though. Maybe less posting or some decline as you mentioned, but i'm sure they aren't going to die off completely. I hope not anyway!!

Although i have noticed, that all the forums I visit regularly, are pretty much dead on on the weekends!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe its because of the nice weather???? LOL I know I've been spending alot of time outside now that spring is finally here!!

[asok]

I do not see forums going away. To me things like MySpace and Facebook are fads and just need to go away. For example, I don't care what you ate last night. I also don't want to spend my time filling out those dumb question emails to learn more about somebody. If I want to know about you, I will do the personal thing and contact you directly.

They have nothing to do with props. Why do I want to look at a page about a person where there are more ads and pop-ups than content the person put up? Please try to find me on one of those types of sites. You will not find me there.

A place like TDH is a great place to find info about a prop. I don't see finding anything useful on Facebook about how to put Boba together.

Just my 2 cents.

[Slowmo]

I think there are probably a few reasons for the decline in posting in forums.

First is many people jobs are blocking forums with firewalls. I know I read TDH while at work currently, but how long with that last before websense blocks it.

Second, there is so much information on the forums now that people are finding what they want with the search function. When someone does ask something that has already been covered elsewhere they get a curt reply that directs them to use search or a link to the topic they were asking about.

Also here we run into the problem of people finish their costume and move on to another project.

[OrtharRrith]

I agree with Asok. They're two very different things. You can't find information on something specific on Facebook or Twitter.
Forums won't disappear, they're too useful to vanish.

[DutchFett]

Mmmm...maybe??? As long as folks need to get parts or find info on how to build/paint something, I'm sure the forums will remain is some capacity though. Maybe less posting or some decline as you mentioned, but i'm sure they aren't going to die off completely. I hope not anyway!!

I second that, as long as people need Fett info or parts TDH ''will remain in some capacity''

Compared to other fan boards, TDH is more like a place for info and not just a discussion board. We're not just a Fett fan board. We know more about Fett than any other Fett forum At least that's what I think...

[FettFanatic]

What has been the trend over 100 days a year ago? I am wondering if it has to do some with the changing weather. We are getting out of the trapped in the house stage. Also, as the forum is getting older the answers to long time questions are being answered and information is easier to find. I don't think forums will go away. I think people will get tired of facebook etc. over time.

[jodo]

Agreed, the TCF board is closing...Alot of people have moved to Facebook,etc. I can't stand sites like that. So I for one would have a hard time keeping up with my friends after the place closes. Just information in gerneral is so easy to find and figure out a forum. IMO, it's alot easier to use forums that sites like myspace,etc. And likewise, I like talking to my web friends, but I don't want to know ALL about you.

[batninja]

What has been the trend over 100 days a year ago? I am wondering if it has to do some with the changing weather. We are getting out of the trapped in the house stage. Also, as the forum is getting older the answers to long time questions are being answered and information is easier to find. I don't think forums will go away. I think people will get tired of facebook etc. over time.

I'm also wondering how the current status compares with this same time last year. Could it be a seasonal thing?

We always expect an influx of new members right after DragoCon and around Halloween, right?

[GCNgamer128]

I just haven't been too active lately because the 501st politics is making me lose motivation.

[Flettch]

I do not see forums going away. To me things like MySpace and Facebook are fads and just need to go away. For example, I don't care what you ate last night. I also don't want to spend my time filling out those dumb question emails to learn more about somebody. If I want to know about you, I will do the personal thing and contact you directly.

I agree totally. I couldn't care less about MySpace, Facebook, Twitter etc. etc. - never registered and never will. I do have a Flickr account, however - but that's because I'm above average interested in photography. Not because I want to know if other people feel bored, or whatnot.

[Rich D.]

Art, I'm not convinced that message boards in general are going away just yet. I think it's a little early to pronounce TDH dead.

This site/hobby has a very specific focus, and requires a fair bit of cash if you want to get totally into it. We have the bad economy (I've seen more recent posts about people getting let go from their jobs than ever before) ; People come here in waves, based on excitement/publicity about the SW universe. Interest in SW may be on the downswing at the moment; We haven't talked much about advertising TDH recently; SDCC and D*Con are months away; the weather is nice. Maybe people are out painting their helmets...

Social sites (TDH included) also can have a fleeting user base, as people's interests change, projects are completed, and new services come along. MySpace is in decline relative to Facebook this year. Facebook copied most of Twitter's UI for their news feed.

If you're looking for new users, or to connect on a larger scale with people, maybe consider leveraging/modifying the TDH group on Facebook, and let new people who join that group auto-login to this site using Facebook connect:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=198499

Although, the occasional transactions of unlicensed products that happen on the site don't really mesh with the transparent (real person's name) nature of other social sites.

It's hard to sustain a community based around finding original parts or tracking history on a prop, when most of that is already done. Really an archive of information like that is better suited to something like Wookieepedia. The best parts of TDH for me are about people making prop/costume parts themselves, and showing others how they did it.

Ultimately, I bet TDH will outlive vBulletin, which is simply not architected to handle newer social networking features. vB either needs a serious rewrite to interface successfully with all the other networking site APIs (not just adding a Twitter button), or some new forum software needs to come along and take its place.

Blah blah. This place will go on for as long as The Dent is excited about maintaining the community.

[NovallTalon]

I think we have to take several things into account here. Most notably is the world's economy and the job loss rate is a biggie. People just don't have the money to put into costuming like they did a year ago. I see it every day on Mercs, someone has lost their job or gotten their hours cut to the point where they can't do as much as they used to.

I'm posting our last 4 months worth of stats at the bottom, but we have seen a steady increase over at Mercs. We try very hard to push those numbers as much as possible to places like TDH as secondary sources of resources and vendors.

No I don't think forums are going anywhere. Facebook/Myspace/Twitter are to chaotic to try to sit there and find any type of real resource on. While forums are social networking tools as well, they have the ability to be customized for specific purposes outside of just networking. If anything more people will come to forums because of the networking sites creating a broader advertising base for forum communities.

A 100 day report is only going to show you the current trend, not your overall trend. Batninja is correct, you have to compare year to date if you want a real figure. So compare this 100 to last years same 100 and you will find a number that is a much better mark for what you are looking for.

[stormtrooperguy]

Ultimately, I bet TDH will outlive vBulletin, which is simply not architected to handle newer social networking features.

I think that's the key...

I do believe that web boards are going to fade. When I first started using the Internet heavily, Usenet was THE place to go for chatting.

I remember being on alt.gothic when people were planning "Convergence", a meetup of goths all over the world.

There were also text-only email lists, run by listserv/majordomo type applications. You could subscribe to a list and would get the emails. Some lists had an archive feature where you could go online and get the older posts in batches. I actually remember writing some code to download the archives, convert them to HTML, then run a rudimentary search engine against them, in an effort to make a searchable history of a list.

Then the fancier apps (mailman, etc...) started to have a web based archive built in.

Yahoo Groups were all the rage for a while... You could read it through the web or email, you could search it, etc...

Livejournal and "web logs" became pretty hot too, with web logs evolving into "blogs" as we now know them.

Somewhere in that timeline forums came along. Right around when I was joining the 501st the push started to transition from Yahoo Groups to phpBB. I helped move the NEG and the whole Legion over to phpBB, and that's when I really came into the joy of the web board.

But web boards alone aren't great for what we do. Enter the wiki... a collaborative content management system. Now we can build a database of all the research that's been done, that you can read like a book.

So it makes sense that the web forum isn't the ultimate form of communication.

I think that content syndication and aggregation are going to be the key concepts of the next transition. Get only the content you want from the people you want to get it from, and not see anything else.

The mechanics of that are still to be determined, but I'm sure it will happen.

I think that TDH as a concept can evolve with the trends. The community will change and adapt to new trends, and 3-4 years from now the TDH that we currently know will be something that the old folks talk about, and occasionally remind the new folks about as we walk barefoot up hill both ways in the snow to get home.

[TehEl1te]

I don't see forums going away anytime soon... At the same time I don't think myspace and facebook should go away either... It is a very nice way to keep in touch with my friends across the globe. The only thing I don't like about those sites are the bulletins and what not saying "I am eating cheese" "good night"... yah that stuff needs to go... but mysace and facebook are a good way to keep in touch with friends that you can't really access otherwise.

As far as TDH goes... I'm still a new guy here, but I don't see myself leaving TDH...

El1te

[slave1pilot]

Check this out. In Jan, TDH had its most successful month ever in terms of activity... but notice this trend over the last 100 days. This is a charts of posts per day. While it is up and down like mad (mostly differentiating week days from weekends when there are less posts), I think you can see a pretty significant trend.

Looks like it started dropping right after the addition of the Clone section.
Just an observation.

[Kwally89]

Looks like it started dropping right after the addition of the Clone section.
Just an observation.

Strange point! I don't think that an addition would account for the trend we see in Art's graph. I plan on being on the dented helmet when I'm 60....hopefully it is still here. If the dented helmet dies, my escape from reality dies. That is really what props are for me. A nice escape from the mundane existence that is life. I don't know what I would do without this place!

[xfettx]

I dont think myspace or facebook has anything to do with the decline in people coming here. It seems like a few more well known member have stopped posting regularly and they usually had alot to contribute, which gets everyone hyped and talking. Also there aren't many good build threads right now either. No new finds. Not many trooping pictures. As weird as this sounds, when FP wasn't around the first time the board died down alot. Then he came back the boards def picked up alot. Now he's not really around and it seems like it's died down. Same with spideyfett. No idea why it happens but it does. . Also it seems like TDH has stopped trying to do stuff for cons and getting it's name out there. Before TDH tried doing the add in insider and was at the major cons but it seems like that's died down. Have the admins given up for now? I still come on here every day though cause I'll always have the passion for fett and my suit.

[TR 4059]

I do not see forums going away. To me things like MySpace and Facebook are fads and just need to go away. For example, I don't care what you ate last night. I also don't want to spend my time filling out those dumb question emails to learn more about somebody. If I want to know about you, I will do the personal thing and contact you directly.

They have nothing to do with props. Why do I want to look at a page about a person where there are more ads and pop-ups than content the person put up? Please try to find me on one of those types of sites. You will not find me there.

A place like TDH is a great place to find info about a prop. I don't see finding anything useful on Facebook about how to put Boba together.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree 100%
I do not have a facebook, Myspace or Tweet (whatever the hell that means.) When it comes down to it, Myspace, Facebook, ect, are simply large marketing groups. Companys will keep producing more applications that will make it easier for you to know what your friend ate for lunch. And the more way's that you can see this, means more advertisments for everyone. Even if ad's start to get time consuming and are interfering with the purpose of these networking sites people will always return to them. I am amazed that so many people are entertained by what Oprah or any other celebrity's is doing, that will take the time and prescibe to one of their "channels".

These urban networking sites will not take down traditional forums. As long as forums remain forums and don't start to fade into a networking site. You can not go to myspace and have discussions about research on a topic. If anything people are getting more lazy in research and would rather look at some type of wiki then bother talking to others and finding out more,forums should be more concerned about that then networking sites.

[CMAnavy]

I dont have any numbers to back it it up but some forums have slowed down. the RPF seems to be doing just fine, this one has slowed, CE was mostly calm. I know TCF is closing but it it migrating to BSG Fleet, why I have no idea.

On the other hand the Firearm forums I am part of are absolutly hopping right now. XDTalk is very active, AR15 is going strong (EE is gangbusters).

Plus the economy is playing a role here too, I know at this point I would rather spend $1,000 on a Ar accessories, new handgun, ammo or even a Suppressor (high on my list) than replica props.

[Art Andrews]

Wow... I go to class for a couple of hours and look at the response we get! Note to self... talk about the sky falling and people respond in droves! I have to read through the responses again so I can respond appropriately.

[Art Andrews]

I do not see forums going away. To me things like MySpace and Facebook are fads and just need to go away. For example, I don't care what you ate last night. I also don't want to spend my time filling out those dumb question emails to learn more about somebody. If I want to know about you, I will do the personal thing and contact you directly.

They have nothing to do with props. Why do I want to look at a page about a person where there are more ads and pop-ups than content the person put up? Please try to find me on one of those types of sites. You will not find me there.

Bill, I have to respectfully disagree with you and those who think social networking (pick you poison of which one you like; Twitter, Facebook, Myspace) is a fad. In fact, I couldn't disagree more. I could be wrong, but I see it as an emerging trend that is just in the very early stages of spreading its wings. Now, you might not like how particular sites are setup and there may be fads within those sites (like the horrific and unreadable customization that a lot of people do to their Myspace pages) but I think social networking is a trend, not a fad and I don't think it is going anywhere for a long time. It still has a lot of maturing to do, but I think it is here to stay.

[Art Andrews]

The tool we use for trending won't let me go past 100 days... although I can do 100 months and graph that.

[stormtrooperguy]

Sidebar: TCF is closing down because the site owners didn't want to run it anymore / didn't want to hand it over to anyone else either.

[Art Andrews]

OK, here is a chart showing posts PER MONTH from the beginning until now. And before anyone mentions that we claimed to have 10,000 posts in Jan when the chart only shows a max of 8,000, that is because as posts are deleted (such as from the Cargo Hold) the count goes down.

While our overall trend is of course on the rise, I do keep an eye on the stats and while we go up and down it seems to me that we have been going down quite a bit lately. Perhaps there is no coloration to the social networking sites, but from my own experience, I feel like I am seeing a trend that I believe will continue.

[mrgr8ness]

I think the enocomy plays a role. Without as much money to spend, people aren't buying parts and working on costumes, therefore not active in the boards. I think another part is as you stated, the change of times. I am a member of many boards and mod a few. I belong to many types of boards too, and regardless are all suffering a drop in traffic that keeps falling. I don't think we are in danger of going away, and I think we will see at least some bounce back as the economy improves.

[LadySewforus]

Wow, I have not been able to read all of this, just skim through because I am at work.
My reasons are mostly time. Though, I can understand what Andy said about the polictical garbage. But, thankfully, that does not bleed over here, much.

I have been concerned about job stability. At work here I feel that it is very very important that I do not make any mistakes at all. Which transfers to "pay more attention to what I am doing at work"

I don't feel like I have as much freedom to be as carefree.

I am putting much more time into sewing. That keeps me off the computer when at home and on the weekends.

So, I would summarize to blame the economy. In my case anyway. I know many other people are also working OT and second jobs to get by.

I would hate to lose TDH! I can enjoy it here without fear of the politics or the "clicks". They are still here, but it does not affect me too much.

I love TDH!!!

I have to admit that I joined Facebook, but just to keep in the loop. I was starting to feel old and kind behind the times, "get off my lawn" I am
getting there.


anywhooooo.......

[MandalorFett]

Bad economy = job losses = personal depression = less interest in posting or other activities. Just a thought.

[DarthCarcinus]

I personally think that with the advent of social networking sites, people have a way to comiserate in ways that they didn't have before. For example. On a forum, you have moderators, the networking sites are virtually un-moderated. Do I see a shift in interests? yes rather it be the economy which is affecting people in ways that it never did to a loss of overall interest due to group politics (pick a group except the TDH which has no visible politics simply because the Mods won't tolerate that kind of thing... THANK GOD). As technology such as RubieOnRails/Ajax etc improve, we may see a shift to a different type of communication forum, but I don't think that the forums them selves will ever completely vanish.

[LadySewforus]

And, I can agree with the moderator idea. I feel that if I am posting here on TDH, it should probably be "Fett" related. I guess I kinda like the "random thought" aspect.

*shudder* yes, I admitted it.

[TehEl1te]

This is kind of completely random... I read about TDH not getting it's name out there as much as it used to... What if we got back on that? Even if it is as simple as any Fetters/Zams/etc... carrying around a few TDH cards to give out to people who show interest. My Fett is almost done, I really would like to help host TDH booths at cons when I finish it...

As far as the activity of forums, I suppose sometimes people simply lose interest, may have a lot to do with work, may have personal problems that need taken care of, or need a break every now and then... Overall... of all the forums I go to... this is by far the most active. I love this forum! ha

To some, myspace...facebook...twitter may be a fad or what not... to others, it's simply a means to keep in contact with people. I use both facebook and myspace to keep in touch with people I meet at cons, or in other countries or even family. Lets people know generally how you are doing, share pictures and what not. I don't do the whole update every 25 seconds to let people know I am breathing and brushing my teeth, etc... If it weren't for facebook... I wouldn't be able to talk to my friends in other countries nearly as much. I am grateful to have them and at the same time I don't see them as a factor of declining participation on a forum devoted to a single topic.


El1te

[fettpride]

I refuse to conform and join sites like Facebook or Myspace
I'm too old school I guess.

If the those supplying parts only reside on the message board communities, it will surely keep people coming "home"

But this isn't recession proof by any means. At this point, I don't know what is

FP

[NovallTalon]

Looks to me like it started really hitting the skids about the time the world economy died on itself (October/November 08).

Honestly, I would wait until after the summer to try to get any idea of where TDH stands as an active forum. There are just to many outside variables at this time that can be used to invalidate any comparisons to the same time in years prior. Sure, you can get an "idea", but it's a current idea that can be argued as contaminated by extreme external reasons unrelated to social networking sites.

[TehEl1te]

I refuse to conform and join sites like Facebook or Myspace
I'm too old school I guess.

FP

What? lol... It seems people forget what the purpose of those sites really are... Not sure what you would be "conforming" too but I use it as a means to keep in touch with friends and share pictures...

El1te

[asok]

Bill, I have to respectfully disagree with you and those who think social networking (pick you poison of which one you like; Twitter, Facebook, Myspace) is a fad. In fact, I couldn't disagree more. I could be wrong, but I see it as an emerging trend that is just in the very early stages of spreading its wings. Now, you might not like how particular sites are setup and there may be fads within those sites (like the horrific and unreadable customization that a lot of people do to their Myspace pages) but I think social networking is a trend, not a fad and I don't think it is going anywhere for a long time. It still has a lot of maturing to do, but I think it is here to stay.

I agree that they are here to stay but, I see something like LinkedIn as something more meaning full. I know that I don't think it was meant to let the world know that I think the walls are closing in and I have tacos last night. I guess with me not being a very social person, I am not drawn to them.

[xfettx]

What? lol... It seems people forget what the purpose of those sites really are... Not sure what you would be "conforming" too but I use it as a means to keep in touch with friends and share pictures...

El1te

FP is fighting the man...

[A'den Kyramud]

Strange point! I don't think that an addition would account for the trend we see in Art's graph. I plan on being on the dented helmet when I'm 60....hopefully it is still here. If the dented helmet dies, my escape from reality dies. That is really what props are for me. A nice escape from the mundane existence that is life. I don't know what I would do without this place!

Exactly how I feel.

And another thing that makes TDH unique is the family aspect; i think this will be one of the reasons it stays alive. In the short time that ive been here, I've met people and made friendships I'm not just going to give up. This site isnt some impersonal info based site like wookieepedia; this is a community! we are the TDH family.

Long live TDH!!!

[CGClone]

My personal point of view is several fold, it happens almost every year, but this time Im throwing in a few more other points:

- Economy, prop building is down some
- Slight, very small aggregate of FB and MS sites
- We are in the spring, taxes have just been filed by most - this happens every year on most prop boards I am on. If you paid, you aint spending. Others are waiting on the refund check to buy the prized purchase or motherload.
- It will pick up 2 months out before DragonCon.\
- The peeps my age (mid-30's) are often cuttnig back on costuming/props as they find their groove in life. I have scaled waaaaay back on costuming and props, my interests are still there, just not as gung-ho as before. Not as consumed. Happens as you get older. We make up the majority of the crowd, especially in the SW circles.

Its the spring trend, happens every year that I have been involved for the past 5 or 6 years now.

TDH isnt dying.

[LadySewforus]

Maybe we can introduce a touch of "random" here.

Perhaps start a thread titled, "Chat here about anything (within TDH guidelines) "

Then we can post random stuff. Embrace the foolish and random. It is a break from
the humdrum and a needed relief sometimes.

[Art Andrews]

Just another note... I don't actually think TDH is literally dying at this moment. There is some decline... but I am trying to look further out and see what the future will hold and how we can begin to set the infrastructure to support that future. I think some of you are taking this as me declaring TDH's death knell, but my point in making this post is that I have seen in the past where a group holds on to the "old ways" too tightly and ends up becoming obsolete. I do not want this for TDH. I see that such a thing is possible and am interesting in discussing ways in which this might be avoided. How can TDH serve you as well as new users now and in the future?

[TD2253]

Hey Art,

Do you see an ongoing trend in the number of posts per 100 days or so? Like is it repeating itself again in another 3 or 4 months or longer? Also, is there a correlation between people finishing their Fett projects and the decline in the number of posts? I think that after people are finished with their Fett costumes or projects, they tend to not post as much as they used to. Just my opinion on the matter.

[TR 4059]

I'm with Fettpride and am going to "stick it to the man"... now gather your stuff bro so we can go take down Skynet . If I need to contact someone I either send them an email or preferably call them. Don't get me wrong though, I have no problem with those sites and think that the technology advancement's are incredible. However, it's just not my cup of tea.

On another note, Social Networking sites are on a diferent playing field then forums, sites like Myspace and Twitter do not take members away from a costuming forum like this one. A forum has little similarities to a site like Twitter or Facebook. If Joe plans to build a Fett costume, then Joe has to come here, Myspace isnt going to give him much help.

I would blaim a couple thing's on the decline of participation, one being the economy like others have mentioned along with what is currently happening with the Star Wars franchise. When people are excited about Star Wars, whether that be in a release of a game or show series, then more people will start to come around. Nothing this year had to do with any of the Fetts which does not help. I have a good feeling that when people see the Rubies Fett being advertised fans will search the term "Fett costume" more and will come across this site. But like everything else that will be just another wave on the graph.

[Art Andrews]

On another note, Social Networking sites are on a diferent playing field then forums, sites like Myspace and Twitter do not take members away from a costuming forum like this one. A forum has little similarities to a site like Twitter or Facebook. If Joe plans to build a Fett costume, then Joe has to come here, Myspace isnt going to give him much help.

Do you really think this is the case? I agree, you can't get good Fett info from Twitter, but my assessment has been that when forums were the predominent forms of online communication, people came here not only for fett info but to chat as well and do the whole "community" thing, because they had few other venues to do it. Now that the community thing has been ceased by sites like Facebook, those who aren't actively working on a Fett project are more likely to go to Facebook to do their community thing than coming to a site like this. Why would we want people to do their social networking here? Because inevitably it draws them back in to props and they find more projects to work on which makes them post more... blah blah...

I would think in a way, Twitter and Facebook is to TDh what TDH is to the RPF... we took people away from the RPF because they could come here instead of the RPF for their Fett needs because we met those needs better than the RPF did.

[InfraFett]

Hey, I haven't been on TDH much, yet I certainly haven't forgotten about this place. places like Myspace, etc aren't as great as they're made out to be. I just use it to keep in contact with some old friends, etc. I just haven't been on TDH because I have more important things to do. I like this place and I'll try to pop in every now and then.

[Art Andrews]

Looks like it started dropping right after the addition of the Clone section.
Just an observation.

I think we got a new president about the same time... but I am not seeing a corolation between either... Of course some might consider the social networking thing to not be the cause either. Honestly, I think that there are a lot of factors that are contributing to the decline, but I don't think the clone forum is one of them. Considering that the post count in that forum is as high as it is in as short an amount of time as it has been around makes me believe it has been at least a moderate success. If anyone has left or posted less due to the clone forum, I haven't heard about it. Now that other forum about Zam.... that is the forum full of troublemakers!!!

[Art Andrews]

It seems like a few more well known member have stopped posting regularly and they usually had alot to contribute, which gets everyone hyped and talking. Also there aren't many good build threads right now either. No new finds. Not many trooping pictures. As weird as this sounds, when FP wasn't around the first time the board died down alot. Then he came back the boards def picked up alot. Now he's not really around and it seems like it's died down. Same with spideyfett. No idea why it happens but it does. . Also it seems like TDH has stopped trying to do stuff for cons and getting it's name out there. Before TDH tried doing the add in insider and was at the major cons but it seems like that's died down. Have the admins given up for now? I still come on here every day though cause I'll always have the passion for fett and my suit.

We have had a lot of big names come and go over the years. Go look at the Member's list and sort by most posts.... and see how many of those top posters still actively post. We will always have people who at one time contributed in a large way move on to other things in their life. Despite that, we have continued to grow. Granted there are some who rally more responses than others and you are right, some of those have fallen away lately.

In regard to TDH promoting itself, the Insider Ad was certainly a blow. In addition, by going to a new server that was MUCH more expensive, most of our $$$ (which come mainly through the generous donations of TDH members) is spent for the server. If you will remember, a little over a year ago, we were in a nightmare of a situation with our server and the board was painfully slow. Thanks to stormtrooperguy, we are now on a blazingly fast server with plenty of room for future expansion, but it doesn't come for free.

One of the reasons TDH isn't "out there more" is that members aren't volunteering. The last time we were at Dragon Con it was a nightmare trying to get volunteers for the table. The same was the case for Comic Con. TDH will have a table at Comic Con this year, but I wonder how hard it will be to fill time slots...

The biggest problem I see was recently explained to me by a friend who said that the huge burden of the upkeep of a place like TDH always falls on a very limited number of shoulders while a mass of individuals enjoy it, few offer to help.

I don't want to sound like I am complaining, but there are TONS of opportunities that we don't take advantage of due to a lack of interest and a lack of everyone's willingness to pitch in.

[BH Reaper]

The economy has been bad here as well. Our government has only now acknowledged we are in a recession. I haven't had any work since December and thus my time has been spent looking for work so I can start my general grievous costume and keep a roof over our heads. I'm old school as well and don't really like the facebook thing. However being a private investigator facebook is an awesome tool for finding out about people and their habits/hobbies! These sites do 40% of my work for me! But I digress......I will always be a part of TDH as I like the people here and I can relate to most. I think that is the key.

[NovallTalon]

The biggest problem I see was recently explained to me by a friend who said that the huge burden of the upkeep of a place like TDH always falls on a very limited number of shoulders while a mass of individuals enjoy it, few offer to help.

I don't want to sound like I am complaining, but there are TONS of opportunities that we don't take advantage of due to a lack of interest and a lack of everyone's willingness to pitch in.

This is a big one, because supporting your community does not mean just upping your post count in the community. Communities such as TDH are not commodities, they are privileges that a small hand-full of people commit themselves to help succeed while others partake with minimum or no effort to help return the favor.

I'm gonna be pretty blunt here, but anyone who has the chance/opportunity to help out TDH and has not is part of the problem. So when you ask the question about why TDH isn't representing here or there, then look no further than the mirror if you have had the chance to help and haven't.

TDH is here for you, but it's here for you because you want to help it be here for others to. 75% of the posters here don't realize this or don't care, and thats doing a disservice to the 25% helping support the place.

[TeamFett]

I agree that it is a mixture of a lot of things, but I don't think forums will go away anytime soon. In my case, I have had no money to spend on my costume (partly do to economy). Another big issue for me is that there is really no big opportunity to go trooping. There have been zero local events and very few that are within driving distance, so I can't do as much with my Fett, thus I visit and post less.

[MaulMaus]

I really don't know how to improve on what TR 4059 said:

On another note, Social Networking sites are on a diferent playing field then forums, sites like Myspace and Twitter do not take members away from a costuming forum like this one. A forum has little similarities to a site like Twitter or Facebook. If Joe plans to build a Fett costume, then Joe has to come here, Myspace isnt going to give him much help.

Forums like TDH serve a different purpose than Social Networking sites like Facebook or Twitter. Dare I say that Wikipedia/Wookiepedia isn't going to be much of a help to "Joe" either. Sure... you can list all the parts of a costume, and even give some advice on how to do such-n-such... but sometimes you can get stuck. Where do you go then? What if you don't have any "friends" to ask on Facebook or Myspace who know the exact colors and amount of paint needed for Boba's helmet? Then what?

I don't think forums like TDH will necessarily die because of social networking sites. Not if they evolve and serve the needs of the community.

[Replicant Shadow]

The primary issue has been the economy. People don't have the money to spend. We have seen in my community, the cancellation of popular annual events, that you would have never thought would have been impacted, in arguably one of the wealthiest communities in the country. These tough economic times are forcing everybody to re-evaluate the cost living, what is most important to them, and striking balance in what will undoubtly be a major change away from mass consumerism. Time has become precious again, our friends and family in the realm of real life have become important again. It's a shift in priorities on a large scale.

With that being said, this is why Twitter and Facebook have been growing expotentialy. They are the simplest ways to stay tied to your sphere. And, I believe these invaluable formats can only enhance forums such as this one. Plus, there is a huge movement of people, such as myself, who have simplified our online lives. I made the choice to stay here, on Facebook, and now Myspace just for music and costume buddies. I was on 17 plus forums over a period of 4 years, and alot of that added to pure duplicity. Today I am only on the 3 online "destinations" I just mentioned. I got my life back and it's has been great.

What's happening is, is that people are having to ween themselves from over 2 decades of credit induced decadance. Credit became a second source of income for a majority; and now people are forced to not only save, but cease the use of credit all together. That's why banks aren't lending too, they need you to save to bolster their balance sheets. It's a double wammy to the free market. It will take time for this recaliberation to cycle, and as a result forums of all types of interest will reflect this shift. CGClone hit it on the head too. We are just another real-time litmus test of the bigger overall picture.

And on another note, me personally, I am sick of Star Warsing (but I am still gonna make armored costumes and party at cons, time permitting) I have gotten rid of most of it in the last few months, only keeping my most prized possessions. I just finally "OH-DEED"

[CGClone]

Nice wording RS, great points of view.

One thing to take note. Its in these times that these greatest inventions, reinventions and innovations are created. Who knows what tech could evolve from here, in social networking, etc.

[Art Andrews]

vBulletin 4 beta should be out in the next month as well! I know that probably doesn't excite most of you, but there are a LOT of innovations I am looking forward to!

[PEEL1965]

I must say my heart sank initially when I read the thread title.....

I am pretty new to TDH but have been welcomed with open arms. It has been a phenomenal experience so far researching and interacting with all the talented people here from around the globe. Sounds a lot like social networking....

This is an expensive and time consuming hobby. With this in mind, during a recession, priorities change to necessities and supporting one's immediate family. This is completely understandable. I, for one, have become totally immersed in the process of building up a SE Fett. It is a welcome escape and I am thoroughly enjoying every minute.

I do have a Facebook account. Truth of the matter is, after you catch up with old high school friends, what else is there? Anyone that truly matters to me I can call or see in person. There was talk of Facebook selling people's personal information as they own it. The outcry was so huge that they recanted. It is only a matter of time until they revisit this option.....I am rarely on Facebook now, but on TDH at least once of day....

I do not have much to offer to the community at this point. I hope that as time goes by and my costume and knowledge base increases I can contribute more. At this point I would be willing to become a donor to keep this fantastic site alive. I also hope to volunteer at conventions and other local events. I think one has to be willing to give back to a community that has given so much.

Thanks Art for the site. Thank everyone else for the experience thus far. I look forward to what the future holds. Trust that I'll be along for the ride.

[TR 4059]

Do you really think this is the case? I agree, you can't get good Fett info from Twitter, but my assessment has been that when forums were the predominent forms of online communication, people came here not only for fett info but to chat as well and do the whole "community" thing, because they had few other venues to do it. Now that the community thing has been ceased by sites like Facebook, those who aren't actively working on a Fett project are more likely to go to Facebook to do their community thing than coming to a site like this. Why would we want people to do their social networking here? Because inevitably it draws them back in to props and they find more projects to work on which makes them post more... blah blah...

I hear what your saying. I just don't think we have alot of members that are here that come just to chat, and have no intentions to get involved in any sort of Fett/Zam/Mando project. We all have one thing in common and that is our love for one or more of the above characters. So far no social networking site has been able to match on a group to group basis what a forum has been able to achieve on a specific intrest, whether that be research, people to help you if you run into a problem during your build and also a place for vendors to sell certain items that you cannot find anywhere else. Even if you lose the people here just for the community atmosphere, there will always be someone needing a place to discuss and find out more on how to build their costume.

[TR 4059]

oops double post ....atleast im keeping the post counts of the forum up

[jodo]

Sidebar: TCF is closing down because the site owners didn't want to run it anymore / didn't want to hand it over to anyone else either.

Well, it's not just that....There's quite a large backstory on why TCF is closing. However, I can't go into detail.

As for TDH....I realy can't put this in a nice way, there are LOTS of great people here, TONS to be exact. However, there's a few people here, and on other sites, who I won't mention by name, that just bother me. I don't think they're very friendly, I don't think they're helpful, and I just don't like them. And to be totaly honest, I've been staying off of certain boards/forums/threads because I can't stand these certain people. I've talked to a few web friends, and they feel the same way about these specific few people. They even went to say they were down right rude when they met them in person.

I don't meen this in a....Let me think...In a "bad" way, but I for one have been avoiding certain places on the web because of these people. This doesn't account for a decline I'm sure, but for me personaly, it meens not posting as much in certain places.

But overall, I'm guessing activity goes in phases. It picks up when cons come around, certain holidays,etc. I don't think I'd be worried about TDH "closing" to much right about now. Just look how active this thread is.

[Man of War Studios]

Hey guys,

Art, glad you brought this up...Good points all around too guys.

The key word here is "INNOVATION"

When times are tough the competitiveness of any company or small business can grind to a screeching halt, it's focus then is on price. It's no different with TDH, myself Man of War Studios, FettPride or anyone else who offers a product or service. A sudden or gradual withdraw of competitiveness can then give way to Innovation. That goes for TDH, Man of War Studios, FettPride. We need more innovative ideas. Most of you guys remember the early 80's..Think innovation and the buzz will come back exponentially!

Here's an update:

My new classic, version II Jet Pack molds will finally be completed this weekend...Look for new Jet Pack photos here on TDH sometime in the next week or 2.

As for innovation...Well I have something monstrous coming out this summer, 2 years in the making...and Art, "You and I need to have a long conversation when the time comes that could potentially effect the futures of both TDH as well as Man of War Studios in the years to come".


Lets all do more...

[Art Andrews]

@MoW - Couldn't agree more. Innovation is definitely the key and I have to say, from our producers to our members we have some VERY innovative people. I can tell you that I feel very blessed to have two incredibly innovative people who help me with the infrastructure part of the site. They are both working very hard right now to help TDH evolve and continue to be not only relevant but even more personalized and user friendly. I am not sure what I would do without them!

And I am definitely interested in hearing what you have coming down the pipe!!!

[Satxer]

Plain and simple...I hate Facebook, Myspace, Myyearbook...etc. I have no desire to join those sites. I would rather stick to these forums all day long!

[Star Wars Chick]

I do not see forums going away. To me things like MySpace and Facebook are fads and just need to go away. For example, I don't care what you ate last night. I also don't want to spend my time filling out those dumb question emails to learn more about somebody. If I want to know about you, I will do the personal thing and contact you directly.

They have nothing to do with props. Why do I want to look at a page about a person where there are more ads and pop-ups than content the person put up? Please try to find me on one of those types of sites. You will not find me there.

A place like TDH is a great place to find info about a prop. I don't see finding anything useful on Facebook about how to put Boba together.

Just my 2 cents.

My thoughts exactly.

[webchief]

Several factors Art...

The economy, improving weather, old timers (myself included) not posting as much as we used to, interests changing to newer projects, finishing up our Fetts, Facebook and Myspace to some degree.

I wouldn't say it's something to be overly concerned about.

All this has happened before, and it will happen again.

[DL44 Blaster]

Several factors Art...

The economy, improving weather, old timers (myself included) not posting as much as we used to, interests changing to newer projects, finishing up our Fetts, Facebook and Myspace to some degree.

I couldn't agree more.

Plus once many finish their costumes, the interest is naturally going to wane and move to other things. Fett was a constantly evolving replica costume in terms of accuracy and quality for the better of 10 years. I think the bar has been set about as high as it can go there, so for many of the "noobs", they are getting the top shelf stuff with no need to "upgrade" as many of us "old timers" had to do.

[jodo]

Well I have something monstrous coming out this summer, 2 years in the making

Free jet packs for evryone?

[jon_meadowbrook]

I am not becoming a fan of some bullcrap "Boba Fett" friend page on myspace or facebook. Don't worry. TheDentedHelmet FOR THE WIN

[cal196]

I've been here along time, and although I have not posted in a year till today. I'm still here.

[Art Andrews]

With so many mysteries having been solved and TDH becoming more of a resource than an active point of inquiry, we are still doing well, but have certainly dropped off a bit. Although, checking stats, we have actually fared a lot better than many other prop related sites. Can't really complain considering how tough things have gotten on many fronts.

[Tim Allen]

I think as far as some of the older members goes its that we get burnt out. We've pretty much seen it all and done it all. I have come and gone, started a Fett, sold off tons of parts, helped to do a bit of research here and there. I try and pop in a couple times a week as I consider myself good friends with some of these elder members here but I must say from personal experience you do get burnt out and I def don't visit these boards as much as I have in the past years.

Some of the economy plays a big roll I think as well with whats going on in the prop world. TDH is a niche group, though a bigger one, but when some new movies come out like Iron Man for one, all the Halo stuff....etc people flock to that and then the boards become thinned out with just the real hardcore ones that stick around.

[Darth Voorhees]

im here to stay. I have a facebook account and useit to keep in touch with people and find nothing wrong with it BUT in my world it has NOTHING to do with these types of forums. I love forums, and TDH is one of my faves, where i can talk about a specific topic of interest i know EVERYONE herehas. I could never get the info i have for my fett through a social networking site. im on here, the FISD, my garrisons forum, the 501st forums, and BSN every day, as well as facebook. They are all part of my daily "check the forums/e-mail and facebook" routine. So i for one will never stop going on forums, they are saturated with info and people i could find no where else. Long live TDH!!

[SlaveR5]

while facebook has it's plce the THD as it's place as well. maybe image updates and events suit facebook better... if you want to research for fett info this is the place, today, yesterday, forever i hope

[Jango72]

TDH is one of my main sites, and I for one will never stop visiting my favorite forums. Facebook is fine, for keeping in touch with friends and sharing of troop photos, but forums are where I go for sharing of ideas and research/development.

Even locally, my squad mates and I use forums and message groups for coordinating trooping events and social get togethers... so I don't think that forums will go the way of the Do-do any time soon.

Besides... I'd go nuts without my daily dose of TDH. I'd miss you guys too much.

[Darth Mule]

I'm with Art in that I don't think Social networking sites like Facebook and Twitter are going anywhere anytime soon. Remember that TDH is also, besides being an informational resource, a social networking site. I think the future sees sites like ours and sites like Facebook adapting to each other to become something alltogether MORE. We already see the beginning of discussion forums on Facebook with those threads that you are allowed into after answering one of those generally politically angry polls they send out.

Right now, besides the given economical clime and the fact that xmas is right around the corner, we also have people adapting to this era of globalization. The internet is making the outside world smaller, but its making this world, the online world, bigger and giving people more to deal with. So instead of logging on, checking your email, checking TDH, logging off. You're checking email, 2nd email, Facebook, myspace, TDH, RPF, reading the news, etc.

So it isn't that forums are dying, its just that they have more to share their traffic with.

[Fett4reaL]

i have a facebook but the only time i ever use it is cus i have an app on my blackberry, i wish there was a tdh app for my blackberry

[stormtrooperguy]

what would a tdh app do that the browser doesn't? (serious question... i havent had a blackberry in years)

[Huntman]

I have to say I agree the bar has been set about as high as it can be. In the past year I have gotten 3 people interested in trooping but due to the cost of all the top notch parts available ( and never have to upgrade) I steer them well clear of a fett costumes.

Sometimes they steer themselves away when the learn how much a TiE, storm trooper kit costs when compared to the cost of a jetpack, guants and a helmet, guns ect.

Still, I cannot see the day I walk away from TDH. The forum is just friendlier. In fact I just got rid of my Myspace account. I just could not see the point. Everyone I want to share pics with is with is here or on my garrison page.

[NovallTalon]

i have a facebook but the only time i ever use it is cus i have an app on my blackberry, i wish there was a tdh app for my blackberry

Gonna agree with StormTrooperGuy, what would a blackberry app do that the built-in browser doesn't allow? All major forum software already includes a mobile version of the forum, all you gotta do is type it into the blackberry's browser. I do it for TDH and Mercs, and while I don't get all the flashy graphics I can still sign in to check my messages as well as new posts.