Clip of Foxbatkllr discussing Jango armor.
Banzai, I heard you stopped by the table! Sorry I missed you. Boy, that panel was... awkward... although having Thomas coming clomping down the center aisle like Robocop in the middle of the presentation was about the funniest thing I saw the entire convention!
Yeah--I just missed you each time I stopped by. And now you can HEAR him clomping by anytime on this vid...
Cool to see some video of this from the perspective of the audience. I think Donny did a great job during his presentation.
Thanks Dustin. Overall I think it was a good panel. Thanks for posting that clip Barry. I kinda wish someone had recorded the entire panel, it could have been useful for some of the new people on here.
Good stuff... Donny had some really great info I never even knew about Jango...
Donny, you were definitely the most put together in your presentation (although no one can beat Thomas for pure entertainment value).
I will say that I still don't understand the disconnect between the 501st and TDH and why there wasn't more coordination on this (and don't get me started on their Bounty Hunter's Guild). Almost everyone on the panel was a TDH member but it seems like this was a "doing our own thing" effort and I think a better collaboration may have resulted in a more effective presentation. Still, as Spidey said, you did a good job getting some interesting info our on Jango.
I want to thank Donny for filling in at the last moment on the panel. Just before CV (Monday, I believe) I was contacted by the panel organizers and asked to supply a Jango expert for the panel. I put out the call, Donny responded and did one incredble job! His expertise and knowledge on everything Jango is superb!. Thanks for helping me out and sharing your knowledge with the World. TDH members ARE the Best!!
Great job Donny!
Funniest moment of the entire panel:
This issue, for me at least, extends a lot further than a single panel. There are some amazing non-501st resources out there, TDH being one of them, and I am just not quite sure why the 501st, as a group, doesn't embrace those resources a bit more. When, the 501st began the Bounty Hunters Guild, we offered to host it here, and offered to work with the 501st to setup specific forums to provide for their needs. Instead they did their own thing and now you have one site that is primarily dead, and a community that is somewhat divided. I just don't understand things like that.
I agree with you on things like providing resources for other bounty hunters. Our initial intension with adding in the Star Wars costumes forum was to provide for just those type of costumes and was added around the time that talk began of the Bounty Hunter Guild. It is a tough one because those characters really can't sustain their own forum because so few people are willing to build them, but we, as a site, would be more than willing to do our part to support them and continue to help the 501st wherever possible.
Getting back to the CV panel specifically, while the group pulled it off, I think it was a bit of a missed opportunity and one where we could have (and would have) offered a lot of assistance if asked.
Art, fellow members of The Venerable Dented Helmet;
Please allow me to dispel a nasty rumour that seems to be propagated by even the most level minded of individuals; in the 501st there is no us and them.
I have been on the 501st membership team for six years now. For three going on four years I have been the 501st Legion's Membership Officer. I have argued in favour of listing TDH on our resource page. I don't have access to that page myself, and poking the guy who does is a tyme taking process. I am not even looking for a reciprocal link here. TDH is a fantastic resource and I am all for promoting the heck out of it. (As I do only my personal websight, both CIV and CV panels, and whenever I get a chance.) When we finally assemble the 501st's Visual Costume Reference Library for bounty hunter's discussed here, I personally will be placing TDH as our top reference. Today I am activating entries for Darth Vader, 3 different Stormtrooper units, and the ROTJ Royal guard. I would absolutely love to put up Boba, Jango, or Zam next, but so far, despite the offers for help, no one has done the work. So long as the work is impeccable, I am not pick about who supplies it. And credit is served accordingly.
I never heard about the notion to host the 501st's Bounty Hunter's Guild Detachment here. I think that would be a wonderful union, but it would represent a change in TDH's well established neutrality as a "non-costuming group." Which might be just fine. TDH grew when it changed its stance on custom Mandalorians, and for my viewing for the better. Anyone with a clue understands and appreciates the value of this forum, and within the 501st that speaks for a great number. (Sometymes when I read posts here I have to wonder if that appreciation goes two-way, but it matters not. TDH is still invaluable either way.)
It was a shame that our own Seeker had to pull out of the Jango contribution to the CV Bounty Hunters panel. I was very impressed with the detailed presentation Donny gave in his place. Superb on a short notice. Which brings me to another point that seems way to easy for folk to miss and then blame on the big guy; these panels were manned by volunteers. The call was out by a single member of the 501st acting as a liaison between all participants and Lucas Film's convention team. And this he did between shifts at his hospital. The member in question had no plans to attend CV. He just wanted to help.
So some feel obligated to point fingers, say it could have been better. Sure. With more help. The man organizing the panels was looking for any help he could get. But his own resources were limited. There was an assumption that only canon 501st costumes were to be discussed at the majourity of the panels. I laugh at this. And I told our coordinator as much. Would have been great to have a Bossk. Hindsight is 20/20. But blaming the 501st as a community for not meeting everyone's expectations is silly. I think the individual's who presented did a fantastic job, and where appropriate, were very sure to nob their helmets at TDH.
Bottom line, the 501st loves TDH. Don't let none tell ya different.
Well said Thomas.
Also given that TDH was mentioned about 56 million times by the panel presenters, I don't know how anyone in the audience could have missed the fact that this is THE place to go for help and guidance. I think everyone did a great job!!
Thomas, I am working on a response to your post and will try to have something tonight.
iycis, because I don't want to embarrass anyone or have this thread degenerate further, I will keep my comments to myself on the whole thing of TDH being mentioned so much in the presentation. I will just leave that part at saying I do appreciate the nod we were given.
Thanks for the kind words everybody. I did my best.
Thomas, you have without a doubt always been one of TDH's biggest advocates within the upper echelon of the 501st and we appreciate that fact more than you might realize.
In regard to appreciation for the 501st, I can't speak for anyone but myself... I have always said I did not care for the politics of the 501st or the prolonged processes they go through to get something accomplished. However, as a club and a community, I think the 501st are absolutely awesome and it was inspiring for me to see Albin at CV this year and to look at the world he has created with the help of thousands of others. I think the charity work the 501st does is second to none and for a club that started out with little concern about accuracy, I have been thrilled to see how that has changed over the years (and I feel a lot of the credit for that goes to you). I don't like everything about the 501st, but then again, I don't like everything about TDH... and I run TDH! One of the things I have come to see and dislike over the years is the fracturing of the greater prop community into more and more splinters. I also dislike seeing people reinvent the wheel again and again. With that in mind, I would like to see the 501st bounty hunters housed here. We already have a massive resource and for those character that we don't currently have a resource for, it isn't like we couldn't get what is needed.
Let me give you an example. I love Biker Scouts. I know quite a bit about Biker Scouts. I have tons and tons of reference for Biker Scouts. There was a screen used Biker Scout helmet at the con that I probably could have borrowed for a panel. Now, lets say I arranged a "How to Build a Biker Scout" panel at the convention. I believe I could probably pull it off alright. Now, I'll bet there were quite a few members from bikerscout.net at CV. What do you think they would have thought if they walked by the room and saw "How to Build Your Biker Scout" as one of the panels. And what do you think they would have thought had they sat in on my Biker Scout panel. While I am pretty confident that I have a good handle on Biker Scouts and could present myself well, there is no way in the world I know all that the guys from bikerscout.net know and I would be a fool to not get in touch with them and try to have them help me. This isn't about ego or about pride. It is about serving the people in that room and If I tried to serve a room of Biker Scout enthusiasts without involving the guys from bikerscout.net it would be the people who attended my panel who would be the ones to truly suffer and be shortchanged. That is the only point I am making here.
It isn't about whether TDH was mentioned enough. As iycis pointed out, after a certain pregnant pause in the presentation, TDH was mentioned so much I was almost embarrassed. It isn't about being the big dog or getting the nod. It isn't about the presenters who were there. It is, in my opinion, about a lack of coordination, a missed opportunity, and a panel that was passable but not great because of a lack of involving the right resources.
While getting TDH involved could have made the presentation better, I think another problem we are completely missing is the amount of time we had for such a varied group of costumes. Outside of a couple exceptions (Vader) I would say that Bounty Hunter costumes are some of the most detailed and complex costumes you are going to see in the 501st. On top of that you have a lot of hardcore and fanatical people who work on them. I think having only an hour to devote to four difficult to build costumes (and I know we would have liked to see even more in there) did a huge disservice to those that were there to pick up a few new things. I know my wife and I are working on a Zam and we would have loved to have picked up more during the presentation. Thankfully we met Donny and his wife while there and spent some of our downtime talking shop.
Whether or not the olive branch is extended to TDH next time, I definitely think a good hard look needs to be put on how much time is given to cover all of these costumes. Each one of them could probably have an entire hour devoted solely to them so having less than 15 minutes each is clsoe to a crime. Then again maybe the intent from up high was for these talks to give the audience the basics, an idea of what they are getting into, and a pointer to online resources they can access on their own time.
While I missed the Droid Builder panels (which sucks since I am in the proces of building an R2) just looking at their panel titles gives me an idea that they had a better handle on how to present their material with ones focused on basic and advanced techniques etc. I think the problem we face is that they only have to have panels on droids while we are looking at multiple panels on all kinds of costumes. The schedule could have gotten very busy pretty quickly if we handled things that way.
Totally agree on your opinions about details and time devoted to each character.
Okay, if someone needs someone to point fingers at and to be angry at, you might as well point one at me. I'm a big boy, I can take it.
I had originally agreed to help present on the panel and due to having much more important things to do (entertain my 12 year old daughter) I had to back out. I had every intention of getting in touch with you personally Art to discuss the Boba portion and simply didn't due to lack of time, lack of focus due to planning my kid's costume work, etc... When I had to pull out from working on the panel, I admit I dropped the ball and didn't make that contact to get some documentation from you personally. That was my intention to do so and I forgot. I had hoped that others from the panel would do the same but alas, I guess that didn't happen. I'm thankful that folks like Dustin and Donny were available to step up and help with the panel in my (and others) abscense. For example, Seeker was originally listed as being on the panel but wasn't able to do so.
I think we need to remember that these were 501st panels run by the 501st. LFL asked the 501st to put them on. TDH could have done a panel if one was requested, Art. Maybe for C VI TDH will.
Like others have said, the majority if not all the 501st Bounty Hunter speakers were going to already be TDH members who would be able to lean on the knowledge they gleaned from TDH. Was the presentation compiled in great way? Absolutely not and it definitely could have been better but that doesn't mean those that gave up their free time to do this should be mocked or insulted for doing what they did.
Bob, don't worry... we now have you alone cleaning the staff bathroom for the next three months...
In all seriousness, if I have given the impression that I am mocking the presenters, that is not my intention. They did they best they could under difficult circumstances. My issue is more with those who planned this out and led it more than the presenters. I just think it was a huge missed opportunity.
Just clarify my position. I had to back out due to not knowing if I was attending CV or not. I didn’t know much of what the panel was all about, all I knew was that I had 10 minutes to talk about my costumes, not just Jango Fett. I was asked one day and a few days later I had to back out due not knowing if was attending CV or not.
I think that Donny did a great job. I’m glad he took over. I think I my presentation would have been much lesser then his.
Now if I knew I was going for sure and I would had more time to prepare, then things would have been different for this panel.
Last edited by SEEKER; Aug 24, 2010 at 2:51 PM.
Too late, Turo... you are in with Bob, cleaning the staff bathroom.