Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

  1. #26
    pennywise's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2005
    From
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    1,437

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Madrid Boba said: View Post
    Well, Well Well...

    To copy or recast somebody´s work is not fair. In the same way, even if you do it from scratch, and you dont pay Lucas for it is not fair either.

    Is the creator of a model from scratch a better person than someone who modifies the scratch builders work?

    Talking of people or companies like rubies or Don Post, who pays for building them, and then talking about pople that even if they start from zero, but based in lucas creators ideas is not the same.

    In my opinion, the guy that starts from zero, and the guy that recasts someone elses work are both wrong. The only difference is that one works harder,and he is more talented, but in the end both are breaking the law.

    But...if you take a Dont post,or an altmann, and you change some details and recast it, and you sell 10 or 20 ..Will Lucas answer you on the phone and tell you ..go ahead son, paid me xxx dollars and good luck with your sales..

    It is not worth it to even try it. Just make them and sell them

    But what is not fair is taking the work from someone of this forum (mate) like Bobamaker for example, and recast his work and sell it here and in ebay.

    Did i make myself clear?

    Sorry for my english. i dont get to practice that much, and becomes rusted.
    Hunh? and your point is......?

  2. #27
    Madrid Boba's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2006
    From
    Madrid, Spain
    Posts
    620

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    My point is that if you are recasting from someone you know, or if you are recasting from a helmet or armour that was created from scratch from someone of this forum...then dont do it.

    But if you are using a helmet by a well known maker, and you want to do a few to get some money (not for all your life), just go ahead and do it.

    I guess that i made myself more clear this time.
    Regards

    Alfredo

  3. #28
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2002
    From
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    8,182

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Devilstar2k2,

    I certainly understand your concerns. The problem with recasting is that it extends far outside this community and there are so many extenuating circumstances in ever situation that it is almost impossible to create a rule that works for them all. For example, you were suggesting that we make it a rule that any seller of multiple copies of an item show progress pics. If TDH was the only place where people made props, this would be work great. However, what do you do when a seller from another board, like the RPF, ventures here and begins selling a product he had already made, but didn't take pictures because he didn't know about TDH or our rules back when he made his items? Then we are stuck requiring pics of some but not others.

    Before I go on, I want everyone to very carefully reread the first paragraph of the revised recasting rules. Those two sentences were written very carefully and purposefully. Make sure that you understand exactly what is being said and are not reading more into it than is being said.

    Copying or duplicating, any item, with or without modification, without consent from the license holder, original creator, original artist, trademark holder, or copyright holder IS recasting. Deliberately recasting another member’s creation without consent is not supported by this community.

    Devilstar2k2, in regard to proving someone recast, you made my point perfectly for me. It is no more easy for the administration to prove that someone recast than it is for an average member. Like anyone else, as sculpts get more and more accurate, it gets more and more difficult to determine whose is whose and what is a recast. The problem is that all too often accusers come to the administration, make an accusation, provide little or no evidence and then drop the burden on the administration to try to gather evidence and prove/disprove their claim. We will no longer do this as it is not our responsibility to track down every accusation. If anyone is concerned enough about another member recasting, then it is expected that this member take the time to do some research instead of running to the administration and dumping it in our lap. In addition to this, over the years we have slowly moved to a position in which you are guilty simply because another member says you are until you can prove your innocence. We have allowed this to slide for a long time, but having reviewed it, we simply disagree with that approach as it makes you guilty by nothing more than the word of another. We would like to believe that the vast majority of our members are upstanding, honest individuals and we want them treated as such, not as criminals.

  4. #29
    Devilstar2k2's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2006
    From
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,151

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Dent,

    I understand about you guys not wanting to deal with it... But by establishing any kind of recasting rule, you kind of have to deal with the burden that comes with it unless you want your website in shambles.

    Now, this is just my opinion, but it seems counter productive. You guys are gonna have much longer disputes now over all of this. Its not assuming that the folks are guilty from the door if the rules are already posted and in place when the new artists log on for the first time. It protects their work from theft, and protects their reputation. Think of it as a disclaimer of sorts.

    As far as not being able to prove whats a recast and whats not... Well, you just cut off your most valuable tool, which was the progress pics rule.

    With people from other websites coming here to sell, I don't know what to tell ya there... I mean, if it were my site, I'd just say tough beans if they can't provide the pics. Its either that, or watch a new wave recasters flow in once the word is out.

    But again, this is all just my opinion... Only time will tell for sure... I can't see the future, but I do have a talent for spotting flaws in the system.

    Like I said earlier, I'm not trying to start a ruckus... Just trying to help... I won't post anymore about it, its your site, your rules... I'm just glad to be here.
    Last edited by Devilstar2k2; Jan 17, 2007 at 7:26 AM.

  5. #30
    Prymer13's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2003
    From
    VIRGINIA BEACH...VA
    Posts
    1,090

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    As if you were reading my mind...
    batninja said: View Post
    I am so glad I have my bucket already...

  6. #31
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2002
    From
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    8,182

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    DS2k2,

    This is not about the administration not wanting to deal with the issue, this is a matter of an issue, due to its very nature, not being fully able to be dealt with in a fair manner. Lets look at a few examples.

    Items from defunct companies: Don Post no longer is in business. Should we allow their helmets to be recast? In business or not, it is still their helmet. How should this be handled?

    Original castings: FP has what is supposed to be a prototype Jango helmet that he is recasting and making available. RS has a casting of the PP2 helmet that he could recast and make available. Should this be allowed? Even though they both bought their castings, they didn't buy the right from LFL to cast them. How should this be handled?

    Items from unknown sources: MS and SF both bought "mystery helmets" off eBay and have recast them and are selling them. neither really has any right to do so. They don't know the source. They don't even know the history except as it has been told here, which is limited at best. Should we allow them to recast these helmets? How should this be handled?

    As has been stated above, due to the very nature of this hobby, there is no way to set down a single rule or even a set of rules that will cover every situation. Our last attempt to create rules for recasting was to address every possible scenario we could conceive. However, as many members pointed out, these rules were not fair as it allowed some people to recast but not others. We tend to think that it is ok to rip off a large company or LFL but apply different standards to an individual. While some may try to defend that stance it is indefensible. We are not interested in playing semantic games with this or trying to somehow make a wrong deed right. We are calling a spade a spade and leaving it at that. Recasting is recasting, period. We are not making threats or sweeping statements regarding any sort of punishment or barring of such recasting. you, the members, will decide what you can morally live with and will make your choice with your pocketbooks. The only stipulation against recasting we have made is this: As stated in the revised rules, this community does not support the deliberate recasting of another member’s creation without consent. Beyond that, the decision on who and what you support is yours to make.

    In regard to forcing individuals to show progress pictures, that has never been a rule here. We have suggested any sculpter or caster take these steps as a precautionary measure, but it has never been a demand. It has been the membership who has changed this suggestion into a stipulation and a virtual demand. While you may think that this protects one artist from a recaster, what it actually allows is for any established artist or member to place the cloud of guilt upon any person of their choosing unless that person can prove their innocence. This is not fair and will not be tolerated. If someone wants to ask for such proof, that is fine. However, expecting someone to have proof of everything they do is absurd and the fact that they do not have proof is notindicative of guilt.

    While we understand that the artists here at TDH want some type of protection from recasters, for many, especially those who are recasting themselves, it is like a drug dealer asking the police to arrest a thief for stealing his drugs. As with the argument against recasting, such an expectation is indefensible.

    D

    Devilstar2k2 said: View Post
    Dent,

    I understand about you guys not wanting to deal with it... But by establishing any kind of recasting rule, you kind of have to deal with the burden that comes with it unless you want your website in shambles.

    Now, this is just my opinion, but it seems counter productive. You guys are gonna have much longer disputes now over all of this. Its not assuming that the folks are guilty from the door if the rules are already posted and in place when the new artists log on for the first time. It protects their work from theft, and protects their reputation. Think of it as a disclaimer of sorts.

    As far as not being able to prove whats a recast and whats not... Well, you just cut off your most valuable tool, which was the progress pics rule.

    With people from other websites coming here to sell, I don't know what to tell ya there... I mean, if it were my site, I'd just say tough beans if they can't provide the pics. Its either that, or watch a new wave recasters flow in once the word is out.

    But again, this is all just my opinion... Only time will tell for sure... I can't see the future, but I do have a talent for spotting flaws in the system.

    Like I said earlier, I'm not trying to start a ruckus... Just trying to help... I won't post anymore about it, its your site, your rules... I'm just glad to be here.

  7. #32
    Admin Staff webchief's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2002
    From
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    4,702

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Personally I think it's about time this type of policy was released. I have said for YEARS that recasting a Don Post or a Master Replicas is no different than recasting a fan made sculpt. Just because one is created from a major licensee and one isn't doesn't make them different. I'm very comfortable with this official stance.

  8. #33
    pennywise's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2005
    From
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    1,437

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    So does the grandfather clause still stand? And what if someone has let's say "one" Don Post Deluxe "recast" they BOUGHT (not made) and they want to sell it, can they sell it in the cargo hold because they want to up-grade to a BM for example? Also I LOVE my MS bucket and would hate for others to not have the opportunity to get one also. Please Post NO NAMES! If you don't know my abbreviations PM me and I'll tell you.

  9. #34
    Tim Allen's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2002
    From
    THE OC , Southern Cali
    Posts
    1,350

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    pennywise said: View Post
    So does the grandfather clause still stand? And what if someone has let's say "one" Don Post Deluxe "recast" they BOUGHT (not made) and they want to sell it, can they sell it in the cargo hold because they want to up-grade to a BM for example? Also I LOVE my MS bucket and would hate for others to not have the opportunity to get one also. Please Post NO NAMES! If you don't know my abbreviations PM me and I'll tell you.
    I think the dent clarified it when he said

    Recasting is recasting, period. We are not making threats or sweeping statements regarding any sort of punishment or barring of such recasting. you, the members, will decide what you can morally live with and will make your choice with your pocketbooks.
    More or less its up to the members to decided the fate of recasting off mass producted stuff ie: Dp
    While directly casting off a members "sculpt" would be a big no no

    The only stipulation against recasting we have made is this: As stated in the revised rules, this community does not support the deliberate recasting of another member’s creation without consent. Beyond that, the decision on who and what you support is yours to make.

  10. #35
    DL44 Blaster's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2002
    From
    The first state
    Posts
    1,935

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    webchief said: View Post
    Personally I think it's about time this type of policy was released. I have said for YEARS that recasting a Don Post or a Master Replicas is no different than recasting a fan made sculpt. Just because one is created from a major licensee and one isn't doesn't make them different. I'm very comfortable with this official stance.
    I too sounded off over at RPF years ago about this same stance and was pounded into the ground, dragged out into the street and nearly stoned to death, only to have an administrator PM me about my "actions" ..........which was solely my opinion......unbelieveable.

    I think, given the nature of this hobby the new TDH policy is as simple and fair as can be.

    Everyone has a different scenario, situation, issue, problem, whatever, with the whole "recasting" thing, it's just a matter of moving on with it. Someone is always going to get stung in this hobby or any other for that matter.

    It was a gray area then, is a gray area now, and will be a gray area a year from now. There is no one solution.

    Good move TDH

    Steve

  11. #36
    Foxbatkllr's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2003
    From
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    2,566

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    The way I understand it, it makes a lot of sense. The only thing that you will be "banned" or in trouble for is recasting another member's work. The rest of it is the grey area that many people have debated about for years, such as recasts of old licenses, recasts of current licenses, and recasts of original production items. Those grey areas will be governed by nothing other than the peoples own morality. Its up to you to decide whether you want to buy or sell that Don Post recast. At least, that's the way I understand it.

  12. #37
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2002
    From
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    8,182

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    You are on the right track now. The last three posts are definitely in line with our thinking.

  13. #38
    never_ending_fett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2006
    From
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    1,158

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    The Dent said: View Post
    you, the members, will decide what you can morally live with and will make your choice with your pocketbooks. The only stipulation against recasting we have made is this: As stated in the revised rules, this community does not support the deliberate recasting of another member’s creation without consent. Beyond that, the decision on who and what you support is yours to make.


    D
    i think that answers that question

    *edit I was originally responding to pennywise, but in the time it took me to read the whole thread others beat me to it
    Last edited by never_ending_fett; Jan 17, 2007 at 8:17 PM. Reason: got beat to the punch

  14. #39
    Devilstar2k2's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2006
    From
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,151

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    The Dent said: View Post
    You are on the right track now. The last three posts are definitely in line with our thinking.
    I was only speaking of casting another members work in regards to the old rule being top notch. As far as casting the commerical products, or original found items, well, I do see your point about not being able to make a fair rule in that regard. I guess I just assumed that those were gonna squeak by, and in my mind wasn't even grouping them with the others.

    Sorry... Still love me...?
    Last edited by Devilstar2k2; Jan 17, 2007 at 7:54 PM.

  15. #40

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Devilstar2k2,

    I think the negative connotation attached to the word "recasting" is what's making you unsure of the new policy.

    "Recasting" is not a negative term; in the hobby it means "Copying or duplicating, any item, with or without modification, without consent from the license holder, original creator, original artist, trademark holder, or copyright holder."

    It's a declaration not a judgment.

    TDH felt it was time to remove the ambiguity from our recasting policy. Copying a Don Post or screen-used helmet is now what is has always been—recasting (an action). So, the community will approach those items the same way did before; they haven't become tainted goods.



    Devilstar2k2 said: View Post
    I was only speaking of casting another members work in regards to the old rule being top notch. As far as casting the commerical products, or original found items, well, I do see your point about not being able to make a fair rule in that regard. I guess I just assumed that those were gonna squeak by, and in my mind wasn't even grouping them with the others.

    Sorry... Still love me...?
    Last edited by Tyler Durden; Jan 18, 2007 at 11:35 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Code of Conduct Update - PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIAL
    By Art Andrews in forum Site Support & News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Aug 4, 2007, 4:16 PM
  2. Code of Conduct Update: Functional Weapons Discussion
    By Art Andrews in forum Site Support & News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Jun 27, 2007, 11:50 AM
  3. Code of Conduct Addition
    By Art Andrews in forum Site Support & News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Jan 24, 2007, 9:07 PM
  4. TDH CODE OF CONDUCT
    By Art Andrews in forum The Sarlacc Pit
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Nov 2, 2006, 11:39 PM
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •