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CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

  1. #1
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    After a great deal of debate and consideration we are revising our rules and stance regarding recasting. As has previously been pointed out, our past stance was a clear double-standard as it smiled on some recasters while frowning on others. Our revised stance levels the playing field and gives no preferential treatment. We are also taking a strong stance regarding the accusing of fellow members here at TDH. In the past we have had a rather vague policy in which we expected the accused to prove their innocence. This will no longer be practiced or allowed as it presumes the accused to be guilty.

    While we realize that recasting is almost an inherent part of this hobby and that this subject will always be something of a grey area, we hope this revision is not only more fair, but also will help simplify a complicated issue.

    The Dent

    Copying or duplicating, any item, with or without modification, without consent from the license holder, original creator, original artist, trademark holder, or copyright holder IS recasting. Deliberately recasting another member’s creation without consent is not supported by this community.

    If an accusation of recasting is made, the burden of proof falls solely on the accuser. It is not the responsibility of the accused to prove their innocence in any form. The Dented Helmet chooses to believe our members are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until they can provide proof of their innocence. It is not the job of the administration to determine if an individual has recast, only their job to administer punishment if an accuser provides definitive proof of recasting.

  2. #2
    COPENHAGEN6's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Thanks for the clarification and I applaud your good faith in our fellow bounty hunters.

  3. #3
    Devilstar2k2's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    "You copied my work!!"

    'No, I didn't...'

    "Show me your progress."

    'No, you show me that I didn't make this...'

    "But I'm a thousand miles away. It'd just be easier if you showed me your work."

    'No.'

    "Fine, that corner is a tell that I put into my bucket."

    'I put the same tell into my bucket.'

    "Lies."


    Who decides who's right if not admin? I thought thats what the progress pics were for in the first place? Undisputed proof for a speedy resolution.

    Without the build up pics, and a decision from admin. regarding such, theres really no way to prove that somethings a copy. Is there?

    Just seems like the site is gonna be wide open for chaos now in regards to this... More so than when the 'show your work' rule was in place. Was it 100% fair to the creator? No. Did it work? Pretty much.

    Just my 2 cents, and thats probably about all that its worth. :P
    Last edited by Devilstar2k2; Jan 16, 2007 at 8:58 PM.

  4. #4

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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    wat is "proper punishment"? ha, no pun intended

  5. #5

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Devilstar2k2 said: View Post
    "You copied my work!!"

    'No, I didn't...'

    "Show me your progress."

    'No, you show me that I didn't make this...'

    "But I'm a thousand miles away. It'd just be easier if you showed me your work."

    'No.'

    "Fine, that corner is a tell that I put into my bucket."

    'I put the same tell into my bucket.'

    "Lies."


    Who decides who's right if not admin? I thought thats what the progress pics were for in the first place? Undisputed proof for a speedy resolution.

    Without the build up pics, and a decision from admin. regarding such, theres really no way to prove that somethings a copy. Is there?

    Just seems like the site is gonna be wide open for chaos now in regards to this... More so than when the 'show your work' rule was in place. Was it 100% fair to the creator? No. Did it work? Pretty much.

    Just my 2 cents, and thats probably about all that its worth. :P
    Well, because some persons just cry wolf all the time, because someone new comes into the ring. For them I could see it getting tiring, for them to search through all the rubbage.

    You don't see the Judge going to the crime scene and investigating it lookin for evidence.

    The Admin staff, shouldn't have to work their behinds off to prove if someone is guilty or not. The PROSECUTION gathers the evidence and proves the case. So I think if you are gonna cry wolf, you better have the proof of it. Then if they have suffiecient proof to call for recasting, then they can tell the admin.

    Then if it calls for it, then the said "Recastee" can prove against the admin with build up and progress pics.

    I believe what they have incorporated into the Guidelines will help out the community, and the staff...

  6. #6
    CombatBaby's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    I think it will work alright.

    -=QuinN!

  7. #7
    Devilstar2k2's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    The way I see it, its gonna become a huge exploit in the favor of recasters... How do you gather proof from a thousand miles away? Do you buy the persons copy of your own work just to prove it? Even then, theres really no way to prove that they copied you. It will just come out as being "How can you say that its a copy of yours when we are all making screen accurate props?", or the accused (and possibly guilty) can be unresponsive and/or vague, because at this point they are required to provide NOTHING. Someone needs to decide whats what when it comes to that and the only definitive proof will be the lack of progress pics.

    To me, it looks like admin. just eliminated a very valuable tool that they had their disposal... Its gonna mean 'taking the long way' now.

    If I were admin. I'd rather deal with the 'cry wolf' folks, than shoot myself in the foot in regards to recasters. But whatever... Its not my problem, I was just trying to be helpful. Take it however you want.


    -Shawn
    Last edited by Devilstar2k2; Jan 16, 2007 at 10:08 PM.

  8. #8

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    no it isnt. people can compare photos and have tells. Just like this...if I were to sculpt something and I know in my mold there is a small divet on the corner, that accidently showed on the mold and the copies, then if i see someone claiming that they sculpted somethin, and it has teh same defect in the same place, on the same part, then you know something is up.

    When will the said "recastee" be able to post progress pictures of him taking the time to sculpt, make the molds, and all the other of the like? He wont, cuz all he did was pour some RTV around a piece he bought. He wont have progress pics. So if someone can give enough evidence with enough tells that its recast, then they should bring it to the admin.

    But expecting the admin to sit around and prove that they are "recasting" with out any evidence at hand.

    Just like me saying, Devilstar is recasting. Did you see the armor that he posted he said he painted? Thats my armor I made and never sold him any... so ban him.

    Now do I have any evidence that backs this? No...so it is hence, RIDICULOUS.

    TDH Admin has been doing this kind of thing for years. I feel for them having to go around playing mediator between 2 people who are feuding. But this takes some of the leg work out for them. Its still their decision as to whether someone is guilty or not. But like they said, it no longer makes it Guilty until proven Innocent.

    It brings it to Innocent until proven Guilty. Plain as day...

  9. #9

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    I think if you are going to accuse someone of recasting then you should have proof that they are recasting. Why accuse someone on a hunch, if you are going to accuse have the proof enough said.

  10. #10
    Devilstar2k2's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Well... Here's food for thought... If I was going to recast someones work... I'd put a lil filler over it and do some work to it before I made my copies. Still a recast. DING!

    'Wanna buy a 'Mystery Helmet'? I have no idea where it came from... I bought it on eBay like this.'

    One month later:

    'Wanna buy a 'Mystery Helmet'? I have no idea where it came from... I bought it on eBay like this.'



    Okay, I guess I'm done now. Nobody ever seems to get me. I'll just sit back and wait to see how it pans out.

  11. #11

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Boba Fett said: View Post
    I think if you are going to accuse someone of recasting then you should have proof that they are recasting. Why accuse someone on a hunch, if you are going to accuse have the proof enough said.
    exactly.

    Dstar, you're missing the point I'm saying. Remember Bloodsport. Coming on here to make money. Its not like someone makes a recast to sell just one. People recast to make copies and make money. and people have done that. I know when I scuplt something, I know every little detail about it. Just like when someone recast my Halo weapons I did. I knew they were mine, because I knew every little thing about them.

    I didn't really bother me, because they person never really sold them. But its kinda shady when someone does do it just to make money. But then its not really nice for people just to accuse with no proof. Savvy?

  12. #12
    I helped at SDCC '08 GCNgamer128's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    If you have enough skill to modify something to cover it up for recasting, then you should have enough skill to build the item by scratch to begin with.

  13. #13

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    so right now there are several forum members that are selling recasts of MR E3 Clone Helmets, DP TIE Helmets and such. so they are not allowed to sell these since they obviously dont have permission?

    i have used a kellogs helmet to sculpt my beehive. ie modded without permission from the cereal maker. that is considered recasting?

    anyone who makes any resembelence to any star wars character especially armor, helmets, weapons is recasting in some form and or duplicating?

    or are we just talking about those of us who have taken our talent into a usable 3-d form.

    hell, you could even say that the one guy here who used a bell bycicle helmet to make a boba has unlawfully copywrited their helmet.

    help me out here. i am not trying to make waves or those in the cargo hold in trouble, i would just like the skinny and if i am write why are they still for sell?

  14. #14

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    yes, its a grey area, and that is why these threads usually have the CoC posted in it and locked.

    Its very grey.

    The Admins over the years have posted the legalities that are allowed at this board. Like DP products.

    Since DP products are no longer in production, the recast 95s, Deluxes and TIEs are made so that they are available to us as costumers.

    I mean everyone here is infringing on LFL in someway. Because we are making our own costumes, whether we buy from someone making items, or sculpt/ create them ourselves. We are making costumes that resemble another persons designs or concepts.

    But thankfully people like Mr. Lucas, turn a blind eye to it, because in sense, it is the fans like us who keep the franchise alive.

    The Admin trying to protect all of US, the entire Dented Helmet, from things such as false accusations and more of the like.

    Hippo, I've seen your Beehives, they are insane! Amazing.

    But the thing is at hand, is that people can easily cry recaster but rarely have the proof to back it up. And the admin is just wanting people to get the facts straight before they are throwing around accusations.

    Aight? cool? Fo shizzle? Rock on....

  15. #15
    batninja's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    I am so glad I have my bucket already...

  16. #16

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    HAHA...Eric I love you man...seriously....

  17. #17
    Devilstar2k2's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Gilmore of OK said: View Post
    exactly.

    Dstar, you're missing the point I'm saying. Remember Bloodsport. Coming on here to make money. Its not like someone makes a recast to sell just one. People recast to make copies and make money. and people have done that. I know when I scuplt something, I know every little detail about it. Just like when someone recast my Halo weapons I did. I knew they were mine, because I knew every little thing about them.

    I didn't really bother me, because they person never really sold them. But its kinda shady when someone does do it just to make money. But then its not really nice for people just to accuse with no proof. Savvy?
    :sigh:

    I really wanted to keep quiet and let it go, but its really bugging me... lol...

    You see what you suspect is a copy of your work... The item they are selling looks ALOT like yours, but the pic is just a tad fuzzy, and not quite large enough to tell. You email them and they ignore you...

    How do you get proof from an unresponsive seller? According to the new rule, they don't have to respond to you. You can provide all of your work, and your pics, that you want to, but without a voice on the other end of the arguement, to show better pics, where does that leave you? Sure, they look bad... But does that stop them from selling copies of your stuff on TDH? Nope. The worst part about it is that you CAN'T prove anything, because they now have the right to ignore you.

    I'm not saying that we should all run and point fingers, but if nothing is required from the seller of these items, then its basically a license to recast on TDH. Like I said, it looks like it could be an exploit... Do you not see the hole in this new rule?

  18. #18

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Devilstar2k2 said: View Post
    :sigh:

    I really wanted to keep quiet and let it go, but its really bugging me... lol...

    You see what you suspect is a copy of your work... The item they are selling looks ALOT like yours, but the pic is just a tad fuzzy, and not quite large enough to tell. You email them and they ignore you...

    How do you get proof from an unresponsive seller? According to the new rule, they don't have to respond to you. You can provide all of your work, and your pics, that you want to, but without a voice on the other end of the arguement, to show better pics, where does that leave you? Sure, they look bad... But does that stop them from selling copies of your stuff on TDH? Nope. The worst part about it is that you CAN'T prove anything, because they now have the right to ignore you.

    I'm not saying that we should all run and point fingers, but if nothing is required from the seller of these items, then its basically a license to recast on TDH. Like I said, it looks like it could be an exploit... Do you not see the hole in this new rule?
    No man, its not that if they ignore the admin, then they are fine and will get away with it. It is still the admins decision. But the accuser needs to have adequate proof that they could be casting. Not just a simple accusation.

    Just because a recaster doesnt answer the Admin means, he will still be here.

    We can't stop recasters from recasting. Thats how it is, we ban them here, they will just go to ebay and peddle their goods. We can't stop that. But we can cut their sales, but not allowing them to be here, allows the original sculpter to offer them here, instead of from a poorly 2nd generation caster

  19. #19
    Devilstar2k2's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    No, I'm not talking about the admin. getting ignored...

    I'm talking about building a case to even present to the admin. in the first place. If the recaster is clever enough, you will never have a leg to stand on because with the new rule, they can make it impossible to get proof. Thats what I've been saying all along... I thought I was being clear... I guess not... lol...

  20. #20
    batninja's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    I think that if the seller ignores the accusations, and gets banned from the board, the first thing he's going to want to do is clear his name. Then it IS on the seller to provide proof.

    If he decides not to provide proof, then his market shrinks to, what, eBay?

  21. #21

    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Yeah, I get ya now Dstar. It was really unclear to what you were saying. But I think ole Batninja sums it up too.

    Like if I was making say, Knee Armor. And after selling some, this guy comes on the board and it has something similar to mine. The first thing I'm gonna do, is compare. Whether his pics are really fuzzy or not, im gonna take them and compare them to shots of my stuff. And if I felt I had enough evidence to pursue it, I would take it to TDH admin.

    but the first set of knees that come up for sale after mine come out, im not gonna just go RECASTER!!!!! AHHHHH HE IS RECASTING STUFF OF MINE!!!! thats what they are trying to defuse from this whole scenario. word?

  22. #22
    Devilstar2k2's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Yeah... I get ya... lol... I just don't see why its gonna have to be some big complex sting to catch a recaster now. It would be so much easier if the CoC rule was simply:

    1. If you plan to sell batch runs of a replica on TDH, you are required to take pictures of your progress from the original item. This is to provide safety from theft of your work, as well as to show that your work is indeed your work.


    Wait... Isn't that what the rule used to be?

  23. #23
    Tim Allen's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Devilstar2k2 said: View Post
    Yeah... I get ya... lol... I just don't see why its gonna have to be some big complex sting to catch a recaster now. It would be so much easier if the CoC rule was simply:

    1. If you plan to sell batch runs of a replica on TDH, you are required to take pictures of your progress from the original item. This is to provide safety from theft of your work, as well as to show that your work is indeed your work.


    Wait... Isn't that what the rule used to be?
    True but incases like mine where my sculpts were done in a day and I didnt have a camera handy, then what? Its always nice to have photos as back up (which I do now no matter what) but that always cant be possable. If a recaster wants to sell, there going to do it no matter what happens, but once that item hits the market then its open discussion. Better pictures can be taken and the comparison of the two can be judged then. Instead of pointing the fingers and calling people out.

  24. #24
    Devilstar2k2's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Thats one other point that I wanted to bring up, if its stated in the rules up front, its not a matter of guilty til proven innocent anymore. Its a matter of "D'oh... I didn't read the rules". Know what I mean?

    I don't mean you specifically, I just mean in general because it seems like TDH is worried about offending people. But hey, if its there in the CoC when you sign up... Then... Well, yeah...

    When you scrapped your stuff, that was the right thing to do, imo. Because at the time, the rule was in effect. Sad that you had to, but thats what the policy was and you did the right thing. Also, ended up benefiting you, because now you get to prove without a doubt on your second run that its your stuff.

    BTW, I didn't doubt ya... I saw your other stuff and know you have talent...

  25. #25
    Madrid Boba's Avatar
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    Re: CODE OF CONDUCT - RECASTING GUIDELINES UPDATE

    Well, Well Well...

    To copy or recast somebody´s work is not fair. In the same way, even if you do it from scratch, and you dont pay Lucas for it is not fair either.

    Is the creator of a model from scratch a better person than someone who modifies the scratch builders work?

    Talking of people or companies like rubies or Don Post, who pays for building them, and then talking about pople that even if they start from zero, but based in lucas creators ideas is not the same.

    In my opinion, the guy that starts from zero, and the guy that recasts someone elses work are both wrong. The only difference is that one works harder,and he is more talented, but in the end both are breaking the law.

    But...if you take a Dont post,or an altmann, and you change some details and recast it, and you sell 10 or 20 ..Will Lucas answer you on the phone and tell you ..go ahead son, paid me xxx dollars and good luck with your sales..

    It is not worth it to even try it. Just make them and sell them

    But what is not fair is taking the work from someone of this forum (mate) like Bobamaker for example, and recast his work and sell it here and in ebay.

    Did i make myself clear?

    Sorry for my english. i dont get to practice that much, and becomes rusted.

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