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  1. Ronin677's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 4:47 AM - Cannon or not ??? #1

    Is 'cannon' considered any costume that appeared in the proper Starwars films?

    if this is the case then ppl could do an ESB Fett without the jet pack. In the scene where Boba is following Han Solo on the way to Bespin, he is sitting down and does not have the jet pack on. surely this means that this look is cannon.

    what are your opiniomns?
  2. TK-2177's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 8:01 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #2

    From my time with the 501st, I believe canon means that it was seen on screen in one of the six SW films. If I'm wrong I'm sure some of my fellow 501ster's will correct me.
    A lot of the LFL event's we do are canon, and that means if you can't point to a scene in a film and say "That's my character" then you would not be able to participate.
    I have been to very few event's where a Boba had no JP, but I doubt it would be accepted just because of the scene where he is flying the Slave I. ( it does look a bit odd seeing a Fett with no JP.)
    Last edited by TK-2177; Nov 11, 2006 at 7:45 PM.
  3. KaanE is offline KaanE
    Nov 11, 2006, 8:29 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #3

    I think that cannon means ended as the movie, but not exactly. On the other hand screen accurate means exactly. It is what I think.

    For example with the draws:

    It's screen accurate

    It's cannon

    Returning to the topic, reads the post of below. Jejeje
    Last edited by KaanE; Nov 12, 2006 at 2:32 AM.
  4. Admin Staff webchief's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 8:46 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #4

    Incorrect. Cannon means a really big gun that shoots large projectiles. : Sorry, it had to be said!

    Seriously though, Boba Fett without a jet pack is not a costume accepted by the 501st for membership because its an essential and signature piece of the character. The only reason Fett didn't have his pack on in that scene is because he was flying Slave I and couldn't wear it. Are you planning on joining and then just driving all over the place in your suit? : :
  5. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 10:08 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #5

    I have argued against the 501st's stance about what is allowed and what is not for a long time because the term "screen accurate" is often used. Webchief finally made it all clear to me last weekend when I was in Boston. What the 501st is looking for is NOT screen accuracy, but signature traits. For example, when MOST people think of a sandtrooper, what are the first few things that come to mind.... backpack, big gun, pauldron, dirty. If we were going for absolute screen accuracy, not all of the sandtroopers had backpacks, not all had pauldrons, and not all had big guns. However, those are the stereotypical (or as webchief more tacfully termed it: "signature") traits of a sandtrooper so that is what the 501st wants to see because they want the public to immediately be able to identify a character. I think the confusion comes in when someone says the 501st wants screen accurate costumes. That term should not be used because it is misleading. The 501st wants stereotypical characters, and I have finally been able to see the reasoning behind it.

    In regard to a backpackless Fett, I say, build a giant, mobile Slave I cockpit around yourself and send in your picture!
  6. COPENHAGEN6's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 10:35 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #6

    If you decide to make the Giant Mobile Slave I cockpit, please do a tutorial. I would love to see it.
  7. I helped at SDCC '08 Jimmy BufFETT's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 11:08 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #7

    Quote webchief said: View Post
    Incorrect. Cannon means a really big gun that shoots large projectiles. : Sorry, it had to be said!
    Bob, that is hilarious!

    Quote webchief said: View Post
    Are you planning on joining and then just driving all over the place in your suit? : :
    I've actually driven with my :jet pack on (but with my helmet off.) Trust me it is mighty uncomfortable ... don't try it.
  8. Jodo_Kast's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 12:42 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #8

    It is a cumbersome concept the the cream of canon must coincide with the cumulative character of our screen crafted creations. In truth, the 501st concept of canon doth continue to create a deal of consternation.

    What I mean to say that the word "canon" originates from the word for a measuring stick. In other words, it is a term to indicate what a costume is measured against.

    The 501st "canon" includes the Expanded Universe and is not limited to only what is seen on screen. A comic based character like my Jaster Mereel and my Jodo Kast are indeed "canon" by 501st standards. There is however, an "old guard" who still believe that it must be a screen seen rendition otherwise it isn't canon.

    All of that having been said, I agree that Fett should always require a jet pack. The funnt part is that I have had a number of comments on my packless Jaster inquiring why I have skipped the jet pack. The signature Boba look is being confused to make it the signature look for all mandos.

    The Boba Fett costume I am working WILL have a jet pack to be sure.

    p.s. I really, really like Webchiefs concept of "signature" as it is the only thing that makes sense of the 501st's costume reqs.
    Last edited by Jodo_Kast; Nov 11, 2006 at 2:27 PM.
  9. BLUERAM's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 2:17 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #9

    The best Ive seen "Cannon" and "screen accurate" defined is:
    "screen accurate" is exactly like seen in the movies
    "cannon" is anyone that sees the costume will know what it is provided they have seen the movies.
    example an FX stormtrooper suit is cannon but not screen accurate.
    Wish I remembered where and who I saw post this originally.
    Mark
    BH-4265
  10. Member Since
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    Nov 11, 2006, 3:10 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #10

    I guess I'll make a comment, hope it doesn't offend anyone. The 501st has its standards for the reasons already mentioned. Following those standards is what makes the 501st the best at what we do.
    Yes Boba should have a backpack. My backpack won't be done for several months. So I won't submit pics to get my BH designation until then. Will I still troop non-canon events in my Fett? Oh yea.
  11. cal196's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 5:27 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #11

    I guess my opinion is with no jet pack its kinda half done, and even though the jet pack -to me- is the second hardest part to /build/purchase it just isnt complete without it.
  12. I helped at SDCC '08 GCNgamer128's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 5:35 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #12

    Quote webchief said: View Post
    Incorrect. Cannon means a really big gun that shoots large projectiles. : Sorry, it had to be said!

    Seriously though, Boba Fett without a jet pack is not a costume accepted by the 501st for membership because its an essential and signature piece of the character. The only reason Fett didn't have his pack on in that scene is because he was flying Slave I and couldn't wear it. Are you planning on joining and then just driving all over the place in your suit? : :
    It also irritates me when I see sandtroopers without jet packs. If you look in the movies, the only sand troopers who don't wear jet packs are the ones that are being thrown around. Obviously they didn't want the stunts to happen with the pack on.
  13. batninja's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 5:57 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #13

    I've always enjoyed the look of the sandtrooper uniform except for one thing: the dirt.

    As a former military bandsman, my units were always required to be 'spit-and-polished', parade-ready for every formation. I would like to think that the Mos Eisley squad commander would at least want his troops 'white' every once in awhile for inspections and parades. Since that is not the 501st norm, I decided not to pursue the sandtrooper costume. If I go white, I'll do the 'Death Star' TK, and keep my uniform parade-ready.

    Sometimes all that Army training gets in your head...

  14. never_ending_fett's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 6:43 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #14

    Quote batninja said: View Post
    I've always enjoyed the look of the sandtrooper uniform except for one thing: the dirt.

    As a former military bandsman, my units were always required to be 'spit-and-polished', parade-ready for every formation. I would like to think that the Mos Eisley squad commander would at least want his troops 'white' every once in awhile for inspections and parades. Since that is not the 501st norm, I decided not to pursue the sandtrooper costume. If I go white, I'll do the 'Death Star' TK, and keep my uniform parade-ready.

    Sometimes all that Army training gets in your head...


    not to get too off track but i'm always irritated with sandtrooper costumes that are shiney white. Dirty 'em up! if you are gonna do a sandtrooper, do a sandtrooper, if not leave the pauldron and backpack at home.

    and now back to your regularly sheduled thread.
  15. batninja's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 7:16 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #15

    But that's my point. They're not called 'sandtroopers' anywhere in the movie. They're just troops, garrisoned at Mos Eisley. They've got specialized equipment for that particular mission, just as our troops have specialized equipment in various parts of the world (flak jackets, goggles, knee pads, etc).

    We have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we don't call them 'sandtroops'. They're just 'troops'. And even though they don't have to stand inspection every morning, I'm sure there are times when they're asked to be presentable.

    The difference (to me) is that the SW troops are garrisoned in a sizeable city with proper housing, and therefore should have access to cleaning materials...including water, metal oil, and Novus plastic polish.

    I mean, come on...they're weren't always dirty. They were nice and shiny on their first day.
    Last edited by batninja; Nov 11, 2006 at 7:22 PM.
  16. Kantis Nolef's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 7:34 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #16

    Quote batninja said: View Post
    We have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we don't call them 'sandtroops'. They're just 'troops'. And even though they don't have to stand inspection every morning, I'm sure there are times when they're asked to be presentable.
    When I was in Kuwait we were required to clean our boots and make sure our uniforms were clean. With people sweating all the time our uniform tops would get salt stains on them and that was not acceptable, they needed to be washed, and our boots are made of suede and the knap needed to be lifted after all the sand and dust that got ground into them.
  17. I helped at SDCC '08 GCNgamer128's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 8:03 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #17

    Quote batninja said: View Post
    But that's my point. They're not called 'sandtroopers' anywhere in the movie. They're just troops, garrisoned at Mos Eisley. They've got specialized equipment for that particular mission, just as our troops have specialized equipment in various parts of the world (flak jackets, goggles, knee pads, etc).

    We have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we don't call them 'sandtroops'. They're just 'troops'. And even though they don't have to stand inspection every morning, I'm sure there are times when they're asked to be presentable.

    The difference (to me) is that the SW troops are garrisoned in a sizeable city with proper housing, and therefore should have access to cleaning materials...including water, metal oil, and Novus plastic polish.

    I mean, come on...they're weren't always dirty. They were nice and shiny on their first day.
    Psh, calling them Sandtroopers was just a reason to make more action figures
  18. drokkul's Avatar
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    Nov 11, 2006, 10:32 PM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #18

    It could be argued that the dirt was ground in damage from sandstorms and what not, and thus could not be repaired or cleaned. Plus...remember that Mos Eisley was the most wretched hive of scum and villainy in the galaxy. Any troops that were stationed there could easily be corrupt and or lazy and did not care about military appearence. Clone or not.

    Also with Tatooine being an Outer Rim planet, they were probably not subject to constant military inspections from Officers stationed on Coruscant.

    Plus...It's a movie. And you have to suspend disbelief in all movies. That's how Keanu Reeves was able to jump a bus across an unfinished chunk of highway. He just suspended disbelief and drove faster than 55 mph. That's all it takes, after all.
  19. never_ending_fett's Avatar
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    Nov 12, 2006, 1:10 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #19

    all i'm sayin' is that to be 'canon,' 'screen accurate,' or to have the 'signiture' look you gotta have the dirt. I have no argument that in real life that the troops stationed there would have their armor clean sometime, or even in the Star Wars reality they would clean it eventually. As we see them in ANH they've had a long day, they lost and went looking for 2 droids who went in different directions, they've been bending down to pick up pieces of said droids to follow their path (any of you guys with trooper armor tried that? ), riding on the backs of giant lizards, blowing up a sandcrawler, killing 2 farmers, setting up road blocks, and asking people about their droids. That's a pretty exciting day for a garrison stationed on a backwater planet on the outer rim.

    oh and btw thanks for your service all of you who are or have been in the military. You deserve all of our thanks and praise.
  20. Mr Fett's Avatar
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    Nov 12, 2006, 1:50 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #20

    Quote batninja said: View Post
    I've always enjoyed the look of the sandtrooper uniform except for one thing: the dirt.

    As a former military bandsman, my units were always required to be 'spit-and-polished', parade-ready for every formation. I would like to think that the Mos Eisley squad commander would at least want his troops 'white' every once in awhile for inspections and parades. Since that is not the 501st norm, I decided not to pursue the sandtrooper costume. If I go white, I'll do the 'Death Star' TK, and keep my uniform parade-ready.

    Sometimes all that Army training gets in your head...


    Well, something caught my eye when they re-released the original trilogy in the theaters for the Special Editions back in the late 1990s. I hadn't noticed it much on my TV set, but on a huge theater screen I could see it quite well.... the normal ANH Stormtroopers had black smudges all over them...aka: weathering. Therefore, even the "clean" Stormtroopers were dirty! Meaning, if someone is wearing a prestine white Stormtrooper costume (which they all base off the originals they first saw in ANH), then even they are not canon unless they lightly dirty their "clean" trooper up!
  21. fanboy's Avatar
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    Nov 14, 2006, 9:54 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #21

    the meaning of canon was discussed in last friday's forcecast over at tfn. although he was using it in reference to the expanded universe. according to the dictionary canon is: a general law, rule, principle or criterion by which something is judged. canon is the continuity of the star wars universe. it includes the films, screenplays, radio dramas and novelizations. these spin out of george lucas' original stories, everything else is by other writers. not sure if that helps a lot, but i thought i'd try to help.
  22. Ronin677's Avatar
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    Nov 14, 2006, 10:15 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #22

    All said and done, i was only making an observation. I won't be applying for my application until my JP is done

    btw i personally think stormtroopers stationed somewhere like Mos Eisley would be rather lax and not look after their kit to same degree as a guard unit based on something like the Deathstar. Having come from a military background i can say with some authority that when in a combat role your kit does not get looked after the same way as in barracks (its clean and functional, but not always prestine). Anyways dirty armour looks better
  23. batninja's Avatar
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    Nov 14, 2006, 11:01 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #23

    Quote Ronin677 said:
    Anyways dirty armour looks better
    BLASPHEMY!
  24. Ronin677's Avatar
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    Nov 14, 2006, 11:12 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #24

    Quote batninja said: View Post
    BLASPHEMY!


    Hey, I was on about Boba's armour

    I think all stormtroopers look good, as a kid they were like gods to me. I think i had ever seen a stormtrooper in the flesh as a kid i would have wet my pants :o
  25. joshcube's Avatar
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    Nov 14, 2006, 11:36 AM - Re: Cannon or not ??? #25

    I used to be a purist and personally only considered the movies to be canon (i.e. I rejected the expanded universe entirely)... but now Lucas has messed with those so much that you'd even have to make a value judgement about which of the theatrical releases, special editions, or DVD editions (or yet to be released Saga edition, Archival edition, and 3D editions) are canon. I was reading a wiki article the other day that points out that there were even differences in the 35mm and 70mm prints of the original theatrical films.

    The other problem with my formerly purist stance are some of the LucasArts video games that are clearly endorsed by Lucas (even though several have continuity problems with elements of the films). So my new view canon is anything that's officially licensed by Lucasfilm or LucasArts. That leaves out custom mandos (as much as we all love them) for sure, but I'm not sure where that leaves Jedi. Afterall, generic imperial officers are certainly cannon, so generic Jedi ought to be also, even though people basically make up their own Jedi.

    As for screen accuracy... let me introduce a question that's been troubling me. What is more screen accurate? To replicate the prop, or what the prop was trying to be?

    Boba's helmet was obvisouly meant to look like metal... so is a helmet that really is metal more screen accurate than a helmet made the same way as the prop? Maybe there should be a different category like "realistic."

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