Cannon or not ???

the meaning of canon was discussed in last friday's forcecast over at tfn. although he was using it in reference to the expanded universe. according to the dictionary canon is: a general law, rule, principle or criterion by which something is judged. canon is the continuity of the star wars universe. it includes the films, screenplays, radio dramas and novelizations. these spin out of george lucas' original stories, everything else is by other writers. not sure if that helps a lot, but i thought i'd try to help.
 
All said and done, i was only making an observation. I won't be applying for my application until my JP is done :)

btw i personally think stormtroopers stationed somewhere like Mos Eisley would be rather lax and not look after their kit to same degree as a guard unit based on something like the Deathstar. Having come from a military background i can say with some authority that when in a combat role your kit does not get looked after the same way as in barracks (its clean and functional, but not always prestine). Anyways dirty armour looks better ;)
 
I used to be a purist and personally only considered the movies to be canon (i.e. I rejected the expanded universe entirely)... but now Lucas has messed with those so much that you'd even have to make a value judgement about which of the theatrical releases, special editions, or DVD editions (or yet to be released Saga edition, Archival edition, and 3D editions) are canon. I was reading a wiki article the other day that points out that there were even differences in the 35mm and 70mm prints of the original theatrical films.

The other problem with my formerly purist stance are some of the LucasArts video games that are clearly endorsed by Lucas (even though several have continuity problems with elements of the films). So my new view canon is anything that's officially licensed by Lucasfilm or LucasArts. That leaves out custom mandos (as much as we all love them) for sure, but I'm not sure where that leaves Jedi. Afterall, generic imperial officers are certainly cannon, so generic Jedi ought to be also, even though people basically make up their own Jedi.

As for screen accuracy... let me introduce a question that's been troubling me. What is more screen accurate? To replicate the prop, or what the prop was trying to be?

Boba's helmet was obvisouly meant to look like metal... so is a helmet that really is metal more screen accurate than a helmet made the same way as the prop? Maybe there should be a different category like "realistic."
 
joshcube said:
As for screen accuracy... let me introduce a question that's been troubling me. What is more screen accurate? To replicate the prop, or what the prop was trying to be?

I was thinking about this a few months ago when the Real Gloves showed up on the scene. They look ten times better than what was worn in the movies, but as a prop replica, they're not accurate. So do I buy Real Gloves because I want my hands to look good, or do I painstakingly hand-sew pads on like the original props?

I doubt Lucas ever expected that twenty-plus years later, his props would tour the world, so that the fans could pick apart the costumes up close in a museum.

As for the helmet ssue, since usually only the wearer can see the inside, I doubt it matters. Besides, weren't all armor components in the SW universe made from some 'space-age' plastic alloy anyway? Since we can't replicate that in the real world, I'll stick with resin, fiberglass and styrene. :)
 
As for screen accuracy... let me introduce a question that's been troubling me. What is more screen accurate? To replicate the prop, or what the prop was trying to be?

Boba's helmet was obvisouly meant to look like metal... so is a helmet that really is metal more screen accurate than a helmet made the same way as the prop? Maybe there should be a different category like "realistic."

That is a good slant on this minefield of question marks. I guess at the end of the day as long as the general characteristics of the character are there, then it should be considered cannon. and lets not forget that this is just a hobby and should be fun :)

I have noticed that when i get too involved in a prop (ie making sure that every minute detail is correct), it tends to coincide with my stress levels going up. Seriously my entire personality changes and i become a real stress bucket (pardon the pun). Its then time to remember that the guys who made this stuff in the first place probably were not as picky as a lot of us. Still its nice when you troop and people ask to take your photo, kinda makes it all worth while.
 
As for screen accuracy... let me introduce a question that's been troubling me. What is more screen accurate? To replicate the prop, or what the prop was trying to be?

Boba's helmet was obvisouly meant to look like metal... so is a helmet that really is metal more screen accurate than a helmet made the same way as the prop? Maybe there should be a different category like "realistic."

Ah ha! Thats an interesting idea that I have pondered myself. Realism to the world of star wars or the accuracy of what you see in the films. We have only ideas of what they are sopposed to be, what their functions are, how they operate, but we will NEVER KNOW really whats its sopposed to be like. Its only presented to us so vauge, that we as the general populace have to decide for ourselves as to what it really is. We see Mando armor as a functional suit meant for battle, but we do not know everything about the suit to say "this is what this is used for, and this is how it works," and claim it as fact.

Its always appearences versus reality. We see on the outside battle armor, but we dont see realistically what its all sopposed to be.

I believe the term "canon" in this respect, is based on interpretation of the definition of "canon." Some think it means "screen accuracy," whereas others feel it means "something to compare such and such to." I dont know the 501st like everyone else here does, but Im sure their review board has a specific definition by which they judge. If they, for this instance, are going by what you see on screen, at any point in the movies, then you can technically go with out a jet pack. If they should say no, "because its not 'canon,'" you should point out that particular scene in which Boba is actually shown with out a jet pack. I can for instance probably apply as a Jango from the Kamino fight scene with out the jet pack, becuase not too much longer after he and Kenobi started fighting, did Jango's Jet Pack fly off and explode, leaving him without one for a considerable amount of time, much longer then the scene showing Boba. For them to say "thats not canon," is to be hipicritical by their definition, becuase its all shown on the films. (y)

-tubachris
(Much like what Shakespear did, did Hamlet have a relationship with Ophelia??)
 
I can for instance probably apply as a Jango from the Kamino fight scene with out the jet pack, becuase not too much longer after he and Kenobi started fighting, did Jango's Jet Pack fly off and explode, leaving him without one for a considerable amount of time, much longer then the scene showing Boba. For them to say "thats not canon," is to be hipicritical by their definition, becuase its all shown on the films. (y)

-tubachris
(Much like what Shakespear did, did Hamlet have a relationship with Ophelia??)

Its kinda where i was coming from in the first place. Don't get me wrong though, i never mentioned the 501st at all and my intention was not to have a dig at anybody or any organisation (i want to join these guys soon, and definately don't want to step on toes). My original query was just an observation.
 
Its kinda where i was coming from in the first place. Don't get me wrong though, i never mentioned the 501st at all and my intention was not to have a dig at anybody or any organisation (i want to join these guys soon, and definately don't want to step on toes). My original query was just an observation.


I dont mean to disrespect the 501st at all, I actually support what they do, but I cant myself be part of it yet. I'm just saying that if they did say that its not "canon," even though its blatently seen in the film, would make you think, "wait a minute, yes it is and here's the proof." Then again, your going against a board that says yes or no. The people behind the selection process have their own opinions on the matter, and that may influence their decision in many cases, however, Im not saying thats how they operate, because I am only assuming. I also imagine that theres even like a checklist they run through to confirm that you have everything thats sopposed to be seen, and thats probably where they get the jet pack argument. My opinion is that if you have everything, but no jet pack, you should be fine. I mean, look at all the other mando's in the open seasons comic that didnt have a jet pack, and those were not customs....

-tubachris
 
As for screen accuracy... let me introduce a question that's been troubling me. What is more screen accurate? To replicate the prop, or what the prop was trying to be?

Boba's helmet was obvisouly meant to look like metal... so is a helmet that really is metal more screen accurate than a helmet made the same way as the prop? Maybe there should be a different category like "realistic."


this is one near and dear to my heart.

i go for "what it wanted to be" myself.

i've mentioned this numerous times, but i'll say it again, since these are some of my favorite "trooping" experiences.

kids around 12 - 14 years old tend to be miserable at events. they are at the age where they still think you're cool, but don't think that they SHOULD think you are cool, so they instead want to make you look dumb.

so they ask you to shoot them, say your stuff isn't real, whatever...

my fett armor is all metal. not thin stuff... thick, solid, made by a medieval armorer. a kid comes up to you "that stuff isn't even real" and whacks you in the chest. then you see his eyes open wide as he starts shaking his hand, holding his now red knuckles.

or my tusken raider. i carry a 14 pound wood and steel gaffi stick. the point is sharp, just like a real one would be. at another troop, a pack of teenagers were doing that same sort of thing. hitting troopers, causing trouble. they came up to me and did the "yo, you gonna kill me wit dat thing?". i lowered the spiked end and poked him with it. he yelped, jumped back, and became a totally different person. they started posing for pics with us and being fairly decent people.

so yeah. i go for as realistic as i can. i've got a rubber fett rifle, but i'm thinking about getting one of the MRs to replace it, so that when someone asks to see the gun, they get a big, heavy metal and wood thing.
 
my fett armor is all metal. not thin stuff... thick, solid, made by a medieval armorer. a kid comes up to you "that stuff isn't even real" and whacks you in the chest. then you see his eyes open wide as he starts shaking his hand, holding his now red knuckles.

Yeah, living in Southern Cali with Universal Studios, wax museums, not to mention actual film productions, etc, I've seen tons of film props and my reaction is always the same... "I can't believe that actually looks real on film." Props always disappoint me in person.

I don't have the resources for metal armor, so I can't take it to that extreme, but "realistic" vs. accurate is an issue for my paint job. I think I could do a "more accurate" paint job using the topical method. It would look great on film and in digital pics... but I also know that my topical job would "look" topical in person. You'd be able to tell that the chrome paint was on top of the other layers (I'm speaking of my own skills, not the skills of master topical painters on this board). So if I'm going to go with a look that stands up to scrutiny, I'm thinking I have to go with a layered paint job even though it will be harder to control the accuracy.
 
On the question wether or not Boba Fett should have a jet pack to be considered "canon" or not can be answered by the following two pictures..

With out...:
Ahlns_28_oct_2006007.jpg


With...:
Stockholmsmssan2006004.jpg


Now seriously... which one looks tougher?

(btw Jet Pack curtesy of Swedalorian)
 
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