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  1. batninja's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 10:23 AM - 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #1

    I don't post in the majority of TDH much anymore, after selling off my Fett costumes a few years ago, but I'm still pretty active in the Cargo Hold with my sewing services.

    Recently, it has been brought to my attention that 501st standards have changed (not sure how recent) concerning the fabric of the vests and neckseals. For years, it was assumed that the vests were constructed from tackle twill, shiny-side out, and the neckseals were made of the same fabric, but the dull-side out.

    According to the standard listed on the 501st's website, this assumption has been reversed (vest=dull, neckseal=shiny). As I continue to receive orders for vests and neckseals, at this point I am forced to hold off until I get the final word. I do not want to sew these, only to have my customers come back months later to complain that their orders were completed incorrectly.

    I've been in contact with WebChief to get some clarification, but was wondering what the general consensus was from the rest of TDH and the 501st. What are your thoughts? Are there any definitive photos that show the fabric difference?
  2. Jc27's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 12:20 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #2

    I was in the same boat with my rf light kit. They decided the make Perspex piece for ESB white and the ROTJ green, after I had already sold some kits. I think webchief and major are just about finished with the CRLs for the fett suits, so contacting him for clarification is the best you can do.
  3. Vultana's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 3:05 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #3

    501st Legion: Vader's Fist

    The CRL has been published
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    Nov 4, 2013, 3:16 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #4

    Yes, but are they considered complete/finished?

    even the CRL is contradictory in some spots to what seems to be the current opinion.

    For example, the ESB Fett CRL for level 2 states the visor must be green... But the current opinion if the det leadership seems to be that it should be smoke/grey.

    I realize these things change based on new info that comes to light, but or beloved Boba is already an extremely expensive proposition. It would be easy to be infuriated by having to re-buy pieces and parts...
  5. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 3:22 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #5

    Quote tk231 said: View Post
    Yes, but are they considered complete/finished?

    even the CRL is contradictory in some spots to what seems to be the current opinion.

    For example, the ESB Fett CRL for level 2 states the visor must be green... But the current opinion if the det leadership seems to be that it should be smoke/grey.

    I realize these things change based on new info that comes to light, but or beloved Boba is already an extremely expensive proposition. It would be easy to be infuriated by having to re-buy pieces and parts...
    Well being Art and Gino had it in hand we KNOW it to be grey. And the 501st isnt always correct.
  6. Jc27's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 3:24 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #6

    I thought art said it was green.
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    Nov 4, 2013, 3:38 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #7

    To be fair, the CRL is "a work in progress"... but the visor is going to be especially pivotal.
  8. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 3:42 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #8

    Quote Jc27 said: View Post
    I thought art said it was green.
    No, he didnt....And Gino held the visor in his hand as you know for molding the ESB lid. We've had extensive conversations about it in atlanta
  9. batninja's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 4:00 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #9

    Quote Vultana said: View Post
    501st Legion: Vader's Fist

    The CRL has been published
    Yeah, I saw that, that's why I'm bringing it up. Was there a thread anywhere on TDH that explained the change? This small change will automatically disqualify ALL of the potential tier 2 Fetts who bought vests or neckseals from me in the last decade.
  10. DeathProof's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 4:04 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #10

    I'm quite curious now as well.

    I've ordered my soft parts through Arkady. Now with this bit of confusion, I may have an opportunity to correct the vest/neck seal before she sends it to me.

    I'm doing a ROTJ Fett (don't know if there's a difference between any of the versions) but to me, after looking at the promo shots again, it looks like both the vest and the neck seal have a sheen to them. Whether it's light grey or off-white, I can't tell because I've seen both depending on the lighting - but from the consensus I've read, light grey is the magic colour.
  11. batninja's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 4:06 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #11

    Quote DeathProof said: View Post
    Now with this bit of confusion, I may have an opportunity to correct the vest/neck seal before she sends it to me.
    This is the exact reason I've halted production until I get clarification (hopefully with screen shots or exhibit stills)!
  12. DeathProof's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 4:21 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #12

    Hey man,

    Here is the promo shot that I think is the most convincing...

    I think you can clearly see that the vest and neck seal both have a sheen to them and are made of the same material.

    Again, this is ROTJ.

    What do you think of the colour? There is a pretty distinct difference between the vest/neck seal and the flight suit.

    Hope this helps.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. batninja's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 4:26 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #13

    Even the 'dull side' of the fabric has a slight sheen. And weathering does a lot for creating the color distinction between pieces. IMHO, I believe the vest and neckseal are the same for both ESB and ROTJ, just weathered differently. At least, that was the consensus a few years ago.
  14. DeathProof's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 4:28 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #14

    ...and then I see this kinda thing in the MOM gallery....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And the vest and neck seal look like two different colours altogether.

    I haven't been part of the community that long, but to get this right, and considering all the different references to choose from, I'm not surprised it's frustrating.

    Would you take the MOM reference pics for greater accuracy than the promo shots? I would think that the promo shots and screen shots would be the best source.
  15. Major's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 5:05 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #15

    Good discussion points.........

    Since I am the one of the main authors behind the current CRL, thought I could chime and let you know how we arrived at what we did.......

    There shots in the bespin hallway are the main ones which caused the change, here's a couple:

    Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - The Dented Helmet Gallery

    Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - The Dented Helmet Gallery

    Especially on this second one, it was obvious to me that the patches on the gloves has the same sheen as the neck seal. The first photo the neck seal has a sheen to it as well. On both of those, to my eyes, the neck seal and the vest are not the same. Like most of you, I have my first neck seal and vest made shiny side on the vest and dull on the neck seal. After spending countless hours reviewing all the amazing shots, I believe it to be shiny on the neck and glove quilting, and dull on the vest. As batninja said, even the dull side has a small amount of sheen to it. I had my current soft parts custom made, bought the tackle twill material and so on.....

    As for the visor, I also thought it was green as well. That's what I have in mine right now. After looking at those same reference shots, it looks like smoke to me.

    And you're right, the CRL has been published, but like any living document, it's a work in progress. It's a far sight better than what we had, which was nothing. Even the ROTJ CRL was in a rough state, but if you look at the thread, we pretty much have it in a more accurate representation of the suit. Even down to the number of shin tools you actually see in the promo shots and on screen. Bob (Webchief) is aware about the modifications and has been doing a great job keeping up with it, especially with our frequent dialogue, it's just a matter of having the time to do so.

    It can be a source of frustration, what do you go off of? Exhibit pics or screen/promo pics? In this case, I based it off the promo pics and screen shots, as the goal is to as accurately represent what is seen on screen in ESB.

    If you're also a member of the BHG, please participate in the process of the Fett CRLs. My goal is to get working versions for all the Fett costumes, since we have so many versions. I have no desire to write them all by myself.

    It's due to the amazing community we have here that we are getting towards actual working CRLs for a costume we've all spent a lot of time trying to recreate.

    I can tell you personally that I'm having my soft parts redone (and realistically most of my costume overhauled) because of the discoveries we've made as a group over here. That also includes scope mounts, dental files, armor, cape, etc.........

    I hope the post is helpful....... I don't post a whole lot, but like to make it count when I do......
  16. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 5:34 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #16

    What about the Blu Ray its been a minute since Ive looked at the Prepro vest on there but thats a pretty darn good reference....
  17. batninja's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 5:35 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #17

    Robert, thanks for the information and input. When was the CRL updated on the 501st website? And was this new information ever posted in TDH? I'm simply trying to see where I missed the notification...
  18. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 5:45 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #18

    http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/f25/3...l-armor-43114/

    Look at the pics uplaoded from the Bluray...its VERY shiny. Thoughts?
  19. Major's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 6:05 PM - 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #19

    The CRL was uploaded within the past couple of months..........

    I've seen the vest that's shown on the Blu-Ray, problem is it's a mash up of Pre-pro armor as I recall, so there's no way to link it back to ESB....... And since they loved to change things with every version of the suit, can't really assume it's the same vest for all the versions......
    Quote Quote Posted from iOS app
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    Nov 4, 2013, 6:13 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #20

    I know that I shouldn't have to ask this, but has the decision been made that the PP2 vest is equivalent to the ESB?


    **Posted this right as you posted, Major...lol
  21. Nov 4, 2013, 7:20 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #21

    Oh for the love of.....

    I had plans top apply for tier3 with my ESB Fett...i had a new vest made by Batninja that i havent used yet as it was a bit smaller than my current one (on purpose..im losing weight) and i was getting ready to switch the armor over soon. So does this mean i need to buy a vest again? I can't really justify this now, so if this is the case, i guess i'll hold off on applying for the tier 3....sigh
    Last edited by Darth Voorhees; Nov 4, 2013 at 7:25 PM.
  22. batninja's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 9:16 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #22

    That's exactly what I was afraid of.
  23. Jc27's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 10:00 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #23

    I think this type of stuff is going to happen until a final decision is made concerning the ESB CRL. While I do understand that it is a work in progress, there needs to be some sort of finality to some of the aspects of the costume. Since the CRL is based off of still photos, it's going to be near impossible to determine exactly what was used. Many different people can look at the same pic and see different things.
    I applaud Major and Webchief for trying to get the ESB CRL updated, I can see how difficult it is to try to determine the finer aspects of the costume.
  24. Nov 4, 2013, 10:09 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #24

    Well, i mean, i dont HAVE to apply for tier 3...i mean, its a costume, and its still B.A. I would like to at some point, but i mean its not going to affect my trooping it so its not THAT big a deal...but it will suck if ultimately thats what i have to do. Id probably have a hard time selling the one i have off too because technically it would be "wrong"
  25. DeathProof's Avatar
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    Nov 4, 2013, 10:59 PM - Re: 501st 'Level 2 Certification' Clarification for Vests/Neckseals? #25

    Quote Darth Voorhees said: View Post
    Well, i mean, i dont HAVE to apply for tier 3...i mean, its a costume, and its still B.A. I would like to at some point, but i mean its not going to affect my trooping it so its not THAT big a deal...but it will suck if ultimately thats what i have to do. Id probably have a hard time selling the one i have off too because technically it would be "wrong"
    I never considered what new found accuracies do to the value of current costumes. Ugh. That sucks.