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Looking for scope help

  1. #76

    Re: Looking for scope help

    That's looking pretty darned good so far Storm. Here are a few constructive points as I see: The top C-shaped "sash" should be a tiny bit thicker, and a wee bit more squared off. Also it has two holes through the front (and I assume) rear faces. The center "spine" should be thinner, and not tube shaped. Just some observations. Darned fine work bro!

  2. #77
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    Unfortunately I cant show the photo, but the center is definitally a tube in the front, not sure about the rear. I was shown a high res photo that showed the tube running up the center. Which also makes me believe tht this is some sort of a mount, with a screw down the center on one side, mounted to a metal mount like in the photos above.

    Im sure youve all seen them, they attach to rods, and have a screw that goes downn the cetner and 'bites' into whatever its attached too.

    Im wondering if theres some photography equipment used to hold the heiland tubes or something, that looks like this.

    The top sash is what the mounts 'clip' to, so the thickness is determined by the scope mounts. If the scope mounts were further apart, the sash would be thicker. Does that make sense?

    I cant say the scopes that everyone says are 'acurate' arent acurate, but im sure the modern mounts are not quite acurate. But your correct. And the holes do need to be drilled. I dont think these are more than 70% acurate really. But for molding purposes (simplicity) and rough acuracy, i think they are getting close.

  3. #78
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    So, lets see if we can all agree to elminate some ideas, insrtead of agreeing on some.

    First, lets talk about the front mount. This is of a copy of arts posted pic.

    Can we agree on the following:

    1 The mount is not an A, at least in the sense were all used to. In the following picture I have drawn in the 'readily accepted' shape of the mount. Looking at the lines of this pic. can we agree this is not the correct shape?

    2 The angle of the molex in the front MATCHES the angle of the base of the mount, but not the angle of the upper part of the mount (Thats going into the scope area) therefore further eliminating the 'A' frame idea.

    3. The UPPER portion of the mount, does not smoothly transition into the lower 'clamp part' of the mount, further moving away from the accepted (even the mounts I made) shape of the mounts.


  4. #79

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    Re: Looking for scope help

    Your "A" is much too tall.
    The sides should match the angle of the Molex and it should end just above the Molex.
    There's a block missing that goes on top of the A.
    See the pic shabad posted from Saxe Coburg.
    The "A" is blue, you're missing the orange part on top (under the purple).

  5. #80
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    1. The shroud covers the block

    2. If the block isn't this tall or close the mounts height do not match up

    3. And most important if the vertical line ended at the moles, the line past it is diagonal. Which is my point

    By all means, illustrate it

  6. #81

    Re: Looking for scope help

    it makes sense that if the front mount is on the flash tube that it would HAVE to be taller than the back one...if not, the scope sits too short in the front and wouldnt be parallel to the barrel...

  7. #82
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    ^ ^ exactly FD.

    The back mount is about 1/4 to 1/2 inch higher up. due to the barrell change in size.

    The mounts are both roughly the same size at the top. Which means ones a squatty A and ones a tall A. The talls in the front.

    The 'shroud' looks like it acts as a rail for the scope mount. Theres a screw that stops the 'shroud' from being on top of the rail. Theres not room. Which means it IS the rail.

    The rail, has enough room for the scope bracket to pinch under it, But its not raised up on a giant block like in the diagrams.

    Now, regardless, two things catch my eye on arts picture.

    Theres a diaganol line, and no horizontal line, leaving the top of the molex. Heading towards the top of the mount. And at the bottom of the molex, you see another angled piec cutting in towards the clamp.

  8. #83
    shabad's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    I think that's a visual trick from the combination of the curve of the top of the A block and the curve of the bottom of the scope mount clips. This pic from the other thread shows it better.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails scope-mounts-jpg  

  9. #84
    shabad's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    There's no doubt the A blocks are different shapes front to back, the front A block is taller and skinnier. The stem in the A block looks square and as deep as the sides in that image too.

  10. #85
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    I know exactly what the shoud looks like. Ive seen a high res pic of it. Its close enough detail to even know that its black anodized metal.

    And You can see the angles perfectly.

    But im not sure what you mean above 'I think that a combination of the curve of the a and the curve of the scope mounts clips'

    Could you explain which piece your referring to as 'that'. I see arrows pointing to the shroud, but am confused to what your referring to.

  11. #86
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    Do me a favor, draw over that pic with where you think the lines of the mount run.

    For some reason im the only one thats done that. Im curious if your lines will run directly through lines that can be seen or not.

  12. #87
    shabad's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    The arrows aren't mine, sorry about that, it was from your scope mount thread and referred to the holes - I used it as just a clearer picture of the same that Art posted.

    I'd need to reboot into Linux to use gimp to illustrate what I mean. Knowing you have access to the higher resolution pictures sort of makes it all academic, it's silly for me to try and see different details in low resolution pictures Let us know what you discover, I'm keenly interested in seeing this part examined!

  13. #88
    shabad's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    I'll be back after I get some crude lines drawn...

  14. #89
    shabad's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help



    Hardly perfect, but this is about what I've been seeing. Lonepigeon should have a far more advanced perspective. Chris?

  15. #90
    shabad's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    I ignored the mount block in this and was mainly looking at the A, and it's relationship to the scope clamp and molex. The mount block (with the holes) looks to be a angled block on top of the A that the scope clamps to.

  16. #91
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    The pic i was shown ( I dont own copies of them perse) was of a different part, and cropped.

    Im curious as to how people arent seeing what I see in the above pic.

    Parrallell lines going vertical behind the molex and then parrallell lines going diagonal to the top, instead of parrallell lines going from the clamp to the top.

    The shoud is the only thing ive been able to 100% determine the size and shape of. As well as its proximity to the mount, and the way it fits in.

    Well that and the rear mount being 100% an A like pictured in the drawings above. But the front mount is not the same. It has totally different lines. Not at all an A.

    I cant say what it is exactly, because parts are still obstructed, but its not an A with an O under it. It has two different sets of parrallell lines, that converge right near the top of the molex.

    This is what I think:
    'Take dat scope off dat beebee gun and use it. Before that kid shoots his eye out'.

    'Aight. But we needs a mount.'

    "Yo, this ________ makes a noyce front mount G'

    "Aight. Use it. Grind the bottom off, Glue it to a clamp and make it happen boyeee.'

    "Aight"

    'Yo, what about da back bracket? The barrells bigger, it dont fit.'

    'Hmm. just get something dat looks similar, or make one.'

    'Hmm that shapes got a bunch-O-Curves. Gonna take me a while. And I wanted to see dat gold bakini'

    'Just make something close... Bikini'

    'But peeps will know its different'

    'Nahh, just el-slappo one of these molex connectors on each side, itll hide it'.

    Bada Boom Bada Bing.

  17. #92
    shabad's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    That conversation should apply to all Star Wars props

  18. #93
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    Good thats exactly what im referring too

    You agree withme on the shape. The readily accepted shape was one angle, from clamp on the tube, to top of the mount.

    The small details are different between us, but the basic 'not an perfect A shape' is the same.

    The 'mounting block' isnt actually a block.

    Its a rail system thats curved forward.

    Theres something we cant see in any picture that acts as a base.

    The part that looks like a block with holes is in fact a thin sheet of metal, that bends forward, twice. Thats what the mount is attached too. Ill make a 3d model.

    Im glad at least someone else and I are on the same page.

    My drawing above of an A was to illustrate an Incorrect A block. not what I thought it was. Gimme a minute.

    shabad said: View Post


    Hardly perfect, but this is about what I've been seeing. Lonepigeon should have a far more advanced perspective. Chris?

  19. #94
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    This is not acurate dimension wise, but a breakdown of the rough shapes and the way they go together. I think the angles on the sides of the top of the clamp are incorrect here, but i havent got any real way to get any source. But this is roughly how all the pictures come together.

    I think the lower part of the top piece, is more vertical, and the upper part more horizontal.

    Some indicate the center brace, is a tube, not a block. Because they all have a gradient to them. Gradients tend to indicate tubes. Unless its a coincidence, but almost every pic shows the center piece as a gradient.

    Click the link for the avi

    http://www.starwarsuniverse.com/frontclamp.avi

  20. #95
    BobaFettSlave_1's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    from what ive seen of the real deal. the ring seems to wrap all the way round the barrel. no open space on the bottom

  21. #96
    shabad's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    This looks like there's a gap though -


  22. #97

    Re: Looking for scope help

    It's not that there's a gradient that makes me think the center "spine" is not tube shape, its that there's a hard-line of shadow with an indication of a perpendicluar inset.

  23. #98

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    Re: Looking for scope help

    The top of the "A" is flat, not a second angle.

    You're still missing the orange piece, see below:

  24. #99
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    That piece is in my avi. Its just not as tall,. but actually the colored pic above, its not colored to scale. The block is not that visible from the side. On either mount.

    Look at the uncolored version of the pic above and youll see the line of the front mount dissapears under the mount side bracket. You cant see the block. What you see is actually the undercut of the mount brackets.

    And the mount does have two side angles to a flat top (Well we dont know its flat cause it disapears under the shroud.)

    If you want to argue that, maybe go ahead and illustrate over the same picture that shabad did. Because im just not sure what your seeing or where, that Im not.

    I want to get it right, but im not seeing it:/
    Last edited by Stormrider; Feb 4, 2009 at 9:27 PM.

  25. #100
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    Re: Looking for scope help

    With regard to the pipe clamp mount, you guys are very close to an old style pipe hanger. The top of the A-frame held a bolt or could be threaded into a longer anchor rod. I have some in the machine shed on my farm, and unfortunately it is 2500 miles from my present location. They look a lot like what Stormrider posted, but were cast metal.
    Last edited by RangerChet; Feb 4, 2009 at 11:10 PM.

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