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  1. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 11:43 AM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #51

    Quote Count Dookie said: View Post
    Sorry, it still looks like tarnished copper to me. Given the relatively similar color temperature and flash on the two pics you provided, I'd really expect those peeling areas to look much darker. The resin on the Leia bikini looks light to me maybe because most of the surfaces are facing the flash and the object is thin. Quick sketch attached:
    Not sure I quite follow you on the Leia Bikini, but I will concede that it is possible you are right on the rocket. I still think it is possibly the red plastic, but you are wearing me down.
  2. Spideyfett is offline Spideyfett
    Feb 6, 2009, 11:56 AM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #52

    Quote bobasfett said: View Post
    I'm not of the opinion that the missile is at all plastic, nor do I subscribe to the theory that the front is copper. It may be that the original design was made with a plastic part or two (or the entire thing) and it did indeed keep breaking; it's probably a worthwhile exercise to see if anyone can find anything definitive. Regardless, since Art has seen the machinist drawing, I would speculate that the missile is entirely metal (aluminum)now.

    I don't know if it's already been discussed, but is it possible the red we are seeing is just a primer that was used before the actual paint was applied?? In my dealings with paints, primers tend to 'stay' on material much longer than the paints that are applied over them. I'm not sure how involved the wardrobe and special effects personnel would be with proper painting techniques (production processes tend to be sloppy), but I haven't seen any resin or vac formed production pieces made with red material. Usually it's cheap milky-offwhite resin and white/black for the vac formed pieces...again to reduce costs.
    I guess my next Question would be, to all that don't think the tip is copper..... "Then what is it??"
    To me it's easy to say what it's Not, but to say it's not copper and then not show rash or reason is kinda like me saying "it is copper without a doubt".... did that make sense?

    Personally after revisiting a ton of ref photos with my machinest, I'm starting to lean toward copper plating... either way the finish is copper, no doubt there.
    Last edited by Spideyfett; Feb 6, 2009 at 11:12 PM.
  3. never_ending_fett's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 12:00 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #53

    The way a CCD is configured, and I've been out of the camera retail biz for about 3 years so I'm sure technology has changed but anyways, a CCD is a giant grid of pixels and each pixel can only see 1 color, and there is empty space between pixels so there is some interpretation going on even in a raw file.


    Spidey brings up a good point about the discoloration being the clear coat chipping off. The question is chipping off of what, metal? plastic?

    There's discussion about what the red plastic is going on in at least 1 other thread, it's in the thread in the announcements section about behind the scenes pictures. It's definately used in several pieces, mostly stunt pieces or items that needed to be hard but still flexable such as the metal bikini. I think someone even had a good suggestion as to what the material is...
  4. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 1:12 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #54

    Quote Spideyfett said: View Post
    I guess my next Question would be, to all the don't think the tip is copper..... "Then what is it??"
    Keep in mind, I am only saying this about the AoSW/C4 rocket... and I am slowly being dissuaded. The MoM rocket seems to be straight up metal to me. Maybe this one is too and I am just not seeing it.
  5. Rimshot's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 1:26 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #55

    If you look at the black tip area in front of the copper part, there appears to be some small red areas visible too.
  6. Boba-Fett DK's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 1:27 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #56

    Quote never_ending_fett said: View Post
    The way a CCD is configured, and I've been out of the camera retail biz for about 3 years so I'm sure technology has changed but anyways, a CCD is a giant grid of pixels and each pixel can only see 1 color, and there is empty space between pixels so there is some interpretation going on even in a raw file.


    Spidey brings up a good point about the discoloration being the clear coat chipping off. The question is chipping off of what, metal? plastic?

    There's discussion about what the red plastic is going on in at least 1 other thread, it's in the thread in the announcements section about behind the scenes pictures. It's definately used in several pieces, mostly stunt pieces or items that needed to be hard but still flexable such as the metal bikini. I think someone even had a good suggestion as to what the material is...
    Good point... I build models of tanks and aicraft and I can tell you from experience plastic since it has alot of micro scopic holes tends to retain paint as dose Resin, thus paint will normally scratch off then chip off. Metal on the other hand is smooth and retains less holes, and in the binding process of paint it can cause chips thus exposing the metal below. The question is what was this perticular part made of if this is found it might help fill the gaps to this question..
  7. TR 4059's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 1:29 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #57

    Quote ART ANDREWS said: View Post
    Here is a similar effect happening on Leia's bikini.
    After staring at the pic of the Bikini where the paint came off, I honestly do not think this is the same color we are looking at of those guantlet spots. I am to believe that paint does not stick great to the red plastic compound, because there are alot of pics where you can see the paint just disappeared. I would say that atleast the back of the AOSW rocket is machined, from the pic in post #26.

    If this is indeed a custom machined piece, I have a hard time believing that they machined it, then molded it, made a plastic copy and kept using plastic ones even though they would break frequently. It would make more sense to me if they had found a model piece, they would have used that and made machined copys due to the plastic ones breaking. Or they costume machined a rocket and made plastics copys, along with machined ones and switched back and forth. People were crazy back in the 70's
  8. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 1:50 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #58

    My only thought on that would lie in one of two directions... machine a master and then cast it because it is cheaper... or IF there are plastic ones, they were made for the stunt scenes where the metal rockets might hurt the actors... the fact of the matter is, I am REALLY reaching into speculation here and don't have much proof. Maybe, as has been said, the reddish color isn't the same as the leia bikini and maybe it isn't plastic at all. Sure looks that way to me, but I have been wrong before and may be wrong here.
  9. A'den Kyramud's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 2:47 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #59

    Quote ART ANDREWS said: View Post
    wait... wait... I think I am on to something.... In the initial post, Simon Fett said Jeremy stated that the rocket kept breaking... and we know that is true, because we SEE a broken rocket in the stunt scenes! The body is there but the head is gone! So, while I stand by the info I posted above in regard to the piece being machined, I didn't want to be dismissive of Simon's work or Jeremy's word... so I went back and looked and check out what I found thanks to a super clear image the Got Maul took at CIV.

    Check the photo below and then read on...

    So... is anyone else seeing the RED PLASTIC that is seen on the Fett stunt cod, the Fett stunt helmets and Leia's bikini?!? I would argue that at least THIS rocket tip is not metal at all (I do think the back part and the aluminum tip are metal). Maybe only one or a few masters were made and they were too heavy so they went to a plastic casting. Either way, I am pretty convinced this one is the same red plastic we see elsewhere.
    Sounds right to me...but what about them breaking then???
  10. mrgr8ness's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 3:14 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #60

    Quote never_ending_fett said: View Post
    If this was indeed the inspiration for the Boba rocket, then perhaps the whole thing was never intended to be a rocket, but a mini rocket bay just like the real deal. Of course that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but forever there has been the debate of calling it a laser or rocket or missle or something else. Maybe in the SW universe it was supposed to fire mini rockets or projectiles.
    I like this theory as well. Would make the hose connected to the back of the "rocket" in certain costume versions, make a little more sense
  11. Member Since
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    Feb 6, 2009, 5:08 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #61

    Perhaps it should not so much be a search for a helicopter part but more of a "rock pod" search.
    Here are some pic I found.

    this image has potential, Although not accurate it can certainly set the stage for the concept of the rocket.



    Art perhaps the "red rubber" we are looking for is a urethane or latex based rubber. These rubbers can be successfully painted with specialized paints but are not completely resistant to chipping. Perhaps the red tint was used to let the painters know not to go crazy with an uber accurate paint job as it signified it was a "stunt" piece perhaps.

    The machined part does make alot of sense. A New Hope was way under budget and everything was kit bashed. ESB and ROTJ was not after breaking records, they had alot more cash to afford a machined rocket. Perhaps some of the earlier versions of the costume can give clues as well.


    Very interesting points on both sides.
    Last edited by pghfett; Feb 6, 2009 at 5:26 PM.
  12. Shinobi_Fett's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 5:33 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #62

    That's a good point PG! Lets everyone look at all the SuperTrooper pics, and see if there's any insight there. Most of the pics are B/W though, right? I know there are some color ones around too.
  13. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 5:49 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #63

    Quote pghfett said: View Post
    Perhaps it should not so much be a search for a helicopter part but more of a "rock pod" search.
    Here are some pic I found.

    this image has potential, Although not accurate it can certainly set the stage for the concept of the rocket.
    Fett or no Fett... you just have to love rocket pods! Those things are AWESOME!
  14. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 5:50 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #64

    Quote pghfett said: View Post
    Art perhaps the "red rubber" we are looking for is a urethane or latex based rubber. These rubbers can be successfully painted with specialized paints but are not completely resistant to chipping. Perhaps the red tint was used to let the painters know not to go crazy with an uber accurate paint job as it signified it was a "stunt" piece perhaps.
    I think that is entirely possible and plausible. We would really need to talk to someone who was involved to get some more info. Let me do a bit of digging.
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    Feb 6, 2009, 7:34 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #65

    Quote pghfett said: View Post
    Perhaps it should not so much be a search for a helicopter part but more of a "rock pod" search.
    Here are some pic I found.

    this image has potential, Although not accurate it can certainly set the stage for the concept of the rocket.


    .

    Man I was looking at rocket pods all night! Never researched aircraft weaponry before, but it was quite interesting. I was thinking the same thing as never_ending_fett , that maybe the orginal idea was for Boba's weapon to be a rocket pod that shoots out lots of little rockets. Kind of goes with the little darts on the other gauntlet and knees. Also sort of falls in line with the little Kamino saber dart that Jango uses.

    Does anyone know how many holes are on the screen used "pod?" The terminology I saw sometimes had the number of rockets in the part name, so the UB-32 holds 32 rockets. I know there are more holes than that on the gauntlet rocket pod (I'm gonna start saying that ), but haven't seen a straight-on view where you can see all of the holes.

    Anyway, interesting reading! :thumbup
  16. Lassiter's Avatar
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    Feb 6, 2009, 8:31 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #66

    The nose extension looks like it blocks the first row of tubes/micro-rocket, so unless it fires out first with the other three rows as a follow on strike.
    Just a observation after looking at the gauntlet rocket.
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    Feb 6, 2009, 11:45 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #67

    I like pghfett's theory as well. Urethane material for stunt items does make sense and we know that the production used a flexible rubberish material for some threepio parts in ESB and ROTJ, although it was a tan color. Still, I wouldn't discount this theory at all.

    Thanks for the kind words Art. I would take your statements about the red material as gospel as I honestly have no special knowledge with regards to Fett; as much as I have seen, I'm always learning. I find the topic very interesting though and I can see why there would be speculation that other parts, including the missile, may have also been made of this red material.

    Spideyfett, I didn't mean to offend by my comments. I have just always subscribed to the belief that productions tend to keep things simple. That said, I was just stating my opinion, so you may of course be right. The original white Fett has very little 'not white', but one of the items 'not white' is the missile. Although the pics I have are black and white, the missile tip looks like it could be a copperish color without any weathering. Interesting.....

    I would be curious to know what the drawing information had i.e. if it was a drawing that a machinist used, it would typically indicate material(s) and if it were made in parts. Again, speculation that the drawing would have this as there tends to be looser documentation in older productions. Art, is this something you could share??
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    Feb 7, 2009, 12:35 AM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #68

    I love this sort of disscussion.
    to add to the above it appears in the pic below of the special edition suit that there is a hose attached to the rocket. There is no way that the hose could successfully be attached to a plastic part without it ripping off. We all know how stiff those hose attachments are. This missile would have to be machined, at least part of it to stand the stresses involved in just normal movement.



    So I would think looking at a Fett prior to this work up would be a good idea perhaps.
    As much as I've come to love rocket pods I've found no rocket pods to date that match exactly like Fetts.
  19. CombatBaby's Avatar
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    Feb 7, 2009, 2:52 AM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #69

    man, stuff look so close. i just don't know.

    I had a similar experience in seeing something as a found part in college, one of the files/graters that was shaped like the left gauntlet
  20. Spideyfett is offline Spideyfett
    Feb 7, 2009, 11:02 AM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #70

    Quote bobasfett said: View Post
    Spideyfett, I didn't mean to offend by my comments. I have just always subscribed to the belief that productions tend to keep things simple. That said, I was just stating my opinion, so you may of course be right. The original white Fett has very little 'not white', but one of the items 'not white' is the missile. Although the pics I have are black and white, the missile tip looks like it could be a copperish color without any weathering. Interesting.....
    ..no offense taken, your over all point makes perfect sense.
  21. BOBA PHAT's Avatar
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    Feb 7, 2009, 11:36 AM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #71

    The red under color (which I'm not really seeing there) could be either a primer, or a base red for metallic paint. Gold leaf is applied over a red base to accent the color. When I do a bronze faux finish, I start with a dark brown base. I have no idea what the original was, but the copper cone could just be paint.

    -Ryan
  22. Member Since
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    Feb 7, 2009, 8:41 PM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #72

    Something else came to mind as well. Gus Lopez has what looks to be a missile casting in his collection...I tried to find the pic, but unfortunately I was not able to locate it (I have to get my files in order!). I'm curious if anyone here knows the background on this piece; whether it was production made or just a one off. I'm going on memory here, but I believe it had a grey primer color to it.
  23. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Feb 8, 2009, 2:55 AM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #73

    Quote bobasfett said: View Post
    Something else came to mind as well. Gus Lopez has what looks to be a missile casting in his collection...I tried to find the pic, but unfortunately I was not able to locate it (I have to get my files in order!). I'm curious if anyone here knows the background on this piece; whether it was production made or just a one off. I'm going on memory here, but I believe it had a grey primer color to it.
    Are you sure that is a Boba missle and not a Jango that Gus has? I seem to remember some Jango rockets floating around...
  24. fettpride's Avatar
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    Feb 8, 2009, 3:30 AM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #74

    Quote BOBA PHAT said: View Post
    The red under color (which I'm not really seeing there) could be either a primer, or a base red for metallic paint. Gold leaf is applied over a red base to accent the color. When I do a bronze faux finish, I start with a dark brown base. I have no idea what the original was, but the copper cone could just be paint.

    -Ryan
    Quote ART ANDREWS said: View Post
    Are you sure that is a Boba missle and not a Jango that Gus has? I seem to remember some Jango rockets floating around...
    I'm pretty sure it is a Jango rocket

    I think Ryan brings up a VERY valid point. Those with knowledge of painting know that there are certain "base" colors that greatly accentuate other colors. Such as painting a prop black, before painting it silver/chrome. The black will make the silver/chrome "pop". That almost brings up a question about the C4 rocket (resin vs. alu) ... if the body was cast in neutral resin - was it painted black and then accentuated with silver for weathering (i.e.; Sci-Fire metalizing tutorial for example) , or was it the reverse of that
    (an alu body painted black and scratched off for weathering?)

    FP
    Last edited by fettpride; Feb 8, 2009 at 3:36 AM.
  25. superjedi's Avatar
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    Feb 8, 2009, 4:02 AM - Re: FOUND PART ? Gauntlet missile #75

    Looking at those pics of the real rocket, it's either machined aluminum, or the best faux aluminum finish ever seen.
    It just looks too much like metal to be anything other than. . . well, metal.
    I'm also not seeing any red under the copper on the cone portion. I see some areas where the weathering/topcoat has chipped or worn away, but to me it looks like cleaner copper.

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