Fett Files

Ok for some of you that are not sure what im talking about click on S1P's discovery link here. Soz guys pic heavy to some degree as detail needed

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/f23/n...35/#post522433

I have tried to do some major research using my dental technician/background trying to locate and possess, hopefully what i believe is the real deal for our fett accurate nutbags. Ok so going to take everyone on a really boring adventure (sorry if you fall asleep) and ill show what ive come up with so far. So where do i start, i went to my mate, the one i sourced the glenross from as he has been a tech for a long time and with his wife being a dental nurse and now a dental rep (25 years experience) i thought she would be a good starting point. So after some discussion and her taking a pic of the nate-nubs around to people she works with, and some friends that she used to work with ect, a few names of manufacturer were thrown around, Maillifer (swiss), Miltex (USA), Kerr (USA) sybron (USA)Henry Schein-Halas (Europe, USA) ect most all have distributors in one form or another throughout the world. Some companies remain, others eaten up by others, Miltex bought out Moyco/Union broach ect. i ended up harrassing every main known dental supplier in OZ and overseas and had quite alot of help and advice from other sales reps ect. Been in touch with Universitys and Museums in OZ and overseas as well and had alot of helpfull info.

so the 1st set of files i could get my hands on are a Swiss made file from Maillifer, now these are real old school trying to come up with a date of make, via Dr Scott Swank from the National Museum of Dentistry in Baltimore and Professor Henry Atkinson Curator or Melbourne dental university museum, but im thinking maybe pre war (WWII) still attached to a handle but the thing that interested me most was the colour and the ribbing hopefully allowing me to use these as a tool for more investigation down the Maillifer pathway. Heres a few pics. Dr Swank confirmed these files as pre WWII on the 11-01-2011



ok next up are the Kerr Files now the date of manufacture was 1956 as identified via Dr Scott Swank. these have the parallel ribbing but still not what we are after and are quite small.



ok so next Batter up was the medidenta manufactured in France, date unsure off but these are close to S1P post 23 except they dont have the hole to pass dental floss through so that they can tie it around there hand so that the file doesnt fall down there throat, remember they werent using dental dam and some private practice's still dont in some countries. ok so these are numbered 15 and they have a similar head and groove to the ones on the helmet that we are looking for, but are tapered in the middle this obviously a change to allow more grip, as to taper the other way would make them more clumsy to handle.



ok so that it for my 1st couple of batches, will take some pics when the next ones roll in.
here are some emails i got from suppliers, leading me to dead ends

email dated on the 22-11-2010

I am sorry to say that we do not have any of our Product Catalogs archived to send to you. Going by the description you gave, we have not had any product matching that description in the past ten years that I have been with DENTSPLY Maillefer North America. You may want to try sending this request to this address, infomaillifer
Thank you for your interest in our products.
Sincerely,
Karen Stewart

so i did, and have had no contact from them.

next

ok so on the 30-11-2010 i recieved this email

I believe that these were Union Broach metal handle files. They may have been carbon steel, so they would have been sterilized in a glass-bead or molten-metal sterilizer. Miltex bought Union Broach a while back and the metal-handle files no longer show in the catalogue.

I know of nobody who currently manufactures these.

Kim

Mr. R. Kim Bleiweiss |*Product Manager
1717 W. Collins Avenue, Orange, CA *92867 714.817.4120* | kim.bleiweiss@sybrondental.com*|* Endodontic diagnostics, preparation, cleaning, obturation, ultrasonics, microsurgery and retreatment - SybronEndo

SybronEndo*| Safe files, superior fills.
A DIVISION OF SYBRON DENTAL SPECIALTIES

the reason for a glass bead sterilizer is the files would have been put in numbered end into the sand (the glass beads are sand material to sand blast with) and steam and heat would pass through the sand to sterilize file ready for the next patient

next

Hello Matthew - please note after investigation it was noted this product was never "MADE" by Moyco or Union Broach. It may be possible a product was marketed by Union Broach with this type handle --- but if it was it was made by others as a private label for Union Broach.

Sorry this is all the information that we have, Thank you Liz


Elizabeth S. McFadden
International Sales Administrator (Asia, Middle East & Africa)

so a few dead ends (lots actually) No maillifer, No kerr, No medidenta hit a brick wall for abit, then i started to hit a few other places i could think off and thats when i believe things got more exciting for us

i see a lufo esb jp file in there and a F4R ROtj jp file in there, the product catalogue shows the 15 at the top and then packets of the colour codeing following ect. now the colour coding is for dentists to visualize as well as the see the number on the end, so that they dont have to look at there dental nurse and ask W.T.F if she handles a wrong file. To my eye when they jump an increment colour on these particular file match they seem to display a second ring, see the colour code below this is uniform for most endo files wether k,h type ect. or files we are looking for seem to run with the 2nd pictured code.

h strom colour codereamer colour codek strom colour code
looking at this pic from this view to me the silver file looks larger than the red one, but again take with a grain of salt as camera angle's can be unforgiving

could possibly be a 35 or a 70 as represented by the white on the second colour chart


another pic zooming again makes the silver file appears bigger than the red


this pic looks as if the silver file has dropped off, or was not added


prepro1 the files look different sizes again but could be the angle


spideyfett's collage, prepro gaunts silver/red look similar size, Esb Jp file blue, prepro Jp file red, esb gaunt silver red

in the following weeks (christmas has slowed progress down, mail ect) i will be receiving, some of these files (the 15's among others)and let me tell you they werent cheap ( from Europe, shipping the killer) so hopefully this will confirm them for me 100% as none of the pics support the numerical number on the endo of the files but im pretty sure they will, as colour and number is what a dentist needs to visualize not to make mistakes. As for finding these i really am unsure as to what success anyone would have about as much as a glenross or a MQ1 calc, ect rare, some goulish endodontist may have a private collection somewhere stashed in his basement, or if you have a really old endodontist that you visit he might still be using them and sterilizing in a 30 year old sterilizer.

Great research. Looking forward to what you might find.

Originally Posted by FettFanatic

Looks good. Do any of them have the 15 engraved in them?

not yet bro im getting there, stay tuned updating as i go, remember some are on the esb gaunts and pre-pro gaunts and some on the the Rotj JP and the ESB JP

Originally Posted by slave1pilot

Very promising indeed
I think you are very close to finding the actual parts.
good luck with the hunt!

Thankyou Sir
S1P you are the man mate, i just stumbled accross your thread at the right time, the community (I) hold you in high regard i just thought i could offer some insight as having the background in this field this would help and prove that you were correct. Hoping Art can help us, as he stated the files on the suit were numbered different to the helm ones.

HHHMMMM very nice, Evil nubs, impresive most impresive,


I realy think your on the right path here,.... to have the corect files on the GMH with an acurate 3 hole borden as oferd by Mojo and the right micro there will never be a closer thing to the original 6 , Im exieted

Originally Posted by Fett 4 Real

WOW alot of research indeed...I think your on the right track for sure like S1P said...I cant tell for sure if the two are different thicknesses or not on the ESB gaunt...they appear to be different indeed. I wish we had a way to look at the actual screen used gauntlet to see for sure. But either way great work

oh yeah and thanks man, means alot cos you are a fett accurate nutt

sorry have been offline for abit, my state of queensland in australia, has been smashed with flooding rain and 2/3rds of the state has been affected by floods, loss of power, water ect, my house was spared mostly except for my laundry and my front entry way, which insurance will cover,we had to evac and have recently only just had power connected, however the same cant be said for my sister in laws home, they have lost everything and i have been working my butt off to help them clean and salvage what they can, they are insured some good news, but photo's ect cannot be replaced, and have offered my services to others to help with the cleanup, many have no insurance or there insurnace companies have found loopholes in what can be considered flooding and wont pay. these are the worst floods since 1974 and i felt guilty about having a home to come home too, still do, today i am having a rest and chilling out with my numero uno website.


ok part 2 of the fett file hunt

more samples

this one is the J and S Davis(lufo) file

so to the files of interest


ok so 1st up the most important the number 15's in the back of a bucket ( i can take higher res if needed)


for comparison the J&S davis file and the MM file



my mock refined up against the original just for laughs
close in diameter but no candy cane for 1st place

back soon with the jp and gaunts possible configs

Originally Posted by saint_nasty

are you planning on getting them in resin or might we be able to get them machined in aluminum? Or even better, could you order more originals and distribute them?

I would like to show you what they look like in chrome 1st, see if we can retain the detail ect, chrome is a bit tougher than aluminum and it would be accurate within a micron (only from heat shrinkage) but to keep costs lower aluminum could be on the cards, and resin copy could be a goer for the more budget fetts as well, as a 1st timer i dont want to put my foot in it. As for originals ill post the info what to look for, i didnt even get complete sets. From the manufacturer micromega these are not made anymore, its to do with strerilzation and sadly the throw away society plastic is cheap, the plastic ended ones are one use throw away even though they can withstand the heat of being sterilzed, its not worth the dentist being sued for a file fracture and leaving a piece of metal inside your tooth.
This was like looking for a needle in a haystack.

ok so for the name of the file company it is Micromega, they are based all round the world USA,UK,France and Germany, J&S davis are a carrier for this company in the UK. Micromega assure me that these are not made anymore, infact most of the replys i had were back to my dealer in australia and they were not helpful at all, only offering there current NiTi file. Proof of this, is in these photo's of the archived dental catalogue and via the logos and plastic casings shown via pictures. MM stands for Micromega the number 15 reamers for the helmet in my opinion are secured, but as you can see via the photo's of metal handled files for gaunt possibilities and JP there could be many variables. this information is here for Art to Utilise as well as for all of you to add to your fleabay watch listings for the gentlemen and women that must have the real deal if you decide to run with what i have found.

A big thankyou to Dr Scott Swank National Museum of Dentistry Baltimore, and Miss Melanie Parker Museum Education Officer BDA Museum UK for there help with confirmations,references and photo's.
At some stage i'd love to get us a brick donation at Dr Swanks museum $150 to have a big TDH imprinted on it to say thanks.

Thankyou all for persisting with my dribble, and your kind words, a nice pick me up to dire times in my town/state

Been mucking around for the last few weeks playing with silicons, acrylics and resins, anyways made some moulds (pinkysil, great product by the way, silicon at work was way too light) of the red no 15 reamers (helmet Nub) and have cast some in easycast resin (another great product, picked up every detail)i then sprued them to a job at work and cast them up, got 10 out of the 12 that i was happy with. Here's a few pics so far

comparison cast one metal chrome against the actual no 15 reamer


im still playing with some other stuff, some low melt alloy (dyed,coloured) ect
and seeking quotes for fabrication.

sending out some samples to see what some of the guys around here think ect.

Originally Posted by Dahone

Wow....not only are you a Sherlock Holmes....but a pretty good craftsman at that! Look forward to getting in on a run of these!

D

Originally Posted by GCNgamer128

I'll definitely be interested!

Would you be supplying originals, or casts?

man would love to find a big fat cache of these (and 9000 webleys) and would be happy to, but as it stands originals are gonna be like a mq1 clac, glenross rare as rocking-horse poo, the best i can do is rattle these out best i can, ive taken moulds of my number 15 originals and then cast them, from what i have, so yep there is some details that have been picked up, from damage of the files laying around in the pkt ect, they have come out on the casts, some of the 15's that were stamped on the backs have not come out superclean on the originals and you can see the small sprue moulding on the tops around the 15's so the micro-mega manufacturing process wasnt flawless, this is only minute and in some way adds abit of character. i was really taken back with the pinkysil and the easycast at how accurate it was to get all that detail, it is really great stuff. Im still playing and i know you guys are hankering (itching) for some, im just seeing what looks good, what works best, ect and making in all important cost as low as possible and sourceing machining, i have 2 kids so time is a biggie for me, and i dont want to hand out rubbish when the standard is set so high on this abfab website of vendors.


today i put a small recess in the bottom of the nub and phaser (Hybrid) welded, springhardned stainless wire to the bottom of nub end as to replicate the file end which i think was possibly used to heat and push place the files into the silicon of the mq1 half/backing plate, this sounds barbaric and rough as guts but to attain that slight tweak of the nubs on the helmet i thought with F4R's help that this could be a go'er, i was thinking screw or bolt but there would be no abilty to left or right tweak as to how to how you would want them set, i also then used an high heat silver solder to strengthen the weld over the top, so im hoping they should be strong enough for a tweak here or there, but as any metal work hardening will only break over time, and have left them unpainted as i know some have preference and would love to see if the other guys have different colours on offer for the red closer than what i have.
cheers


this is the length of wire added, i thought this was more than enough as the board + the backing plate + allow that half a mil that is stands off the board i only think this as there looks to be a shadow cast againts S1P's pics, collage and gallery pics and enought to give you some play wether you decide to crimp it and glue on the other end ect, but this is why im testing.

hey i reckon get some ear stud backings and we can all have the wives, girlfreinds, partners, husbands a set or pair of earings, might improve the reception
as to what these are suppose to be referred as, im thinking maybe small antenna so all of fetts equipment can talk to eachother ect

Well i was stoked to come home the other day and find a package from Evil E ,and in it were 2 metal nubs along with another little gem ,
All i can say is THESE ARE 100% ACURATE , if you get to hold one of these youl be shoked at how good they are ,and i hope he decides to make copys of these becouse they are amazing id seriously pay $50 for a set the casting methods he uses are proffesional dental tec methods , they are so good , that i now am ampt to put them on my GMH along with an acruate borden and some metal ears, and a real micro switch (found a great supplyer, and 2 are in the post) ,And a real MQ1 board (not to mention the interior workings
I could seriously blow my horn about these for pages but i wont, I seriouslly hope E desides to do a run becouse they will be the perfect finishing peice for a PP2, rotj or sandy style helmets

They come with ,like half the file still cast on to them all i did was heat the end up and pushed it through the plastic, and once i have a helmet worthy of these, ill do the same and then bend the end thats stiks out the other side down to holdem solid,
on that subject is there any pics of the pre pro2 interior in its early stages, before the interior was pulle out ? i really need one,
or at least is it know if it had the same workings as, say the esb helmet , (Is the ESB lid the only one we have pics of the compleate interior?
And yeah only the top half of the slots actually has the MQ1 behind them the lower side seams to have ,visor perspex behind them

Actually i dont know what he'll be doing for the resin ones but a bit of wire would work well,
I think they are a bit to small to but a screw in there and for it to be workable,
if he does make these avalible in metal like the ones i and a few other lucky people got from him, they will be worth what ever he decides to sell them as , trully one of the best castings ive ever seen

was actually going to put a cut the bolt tip off and phaser weld it to the back half of the nub, i bought small bolts for this, but not being able to tweak the nubs as shown in S1P's collage and ref pics, Art im curious as to how these are attached if you could shed light, it looks as if the nub sits on the mq1/BP, looking at S1P's top pic on his thread u can see the transistor at the top of vent so this is half of the mq1-backing plate (i did say backing plate, what ever it is in the above posts).
just some pics i was using for reference
Heilman Helmet_05,
http://gallery.thedentedhelmet.com/v...t_011.jpg.html
RotJ_HD_078

Originally Posted by jinto

Well i was stoked to come home the other day and find a package from Evil E ,and in it were 2 metal nubs along with another little gem ,
All i can say is THESE ARE 100% ACURATE , if you get to hold one of these youl be shoked at how good they are ,and i hope he decides to make copys of these becouse they are amazing id seriously pay $50 for a set the casting methods he uses are proffesional dental tec methods , they are so good , that i now am ampt to put them on my GMH along with an acruate borden and some metal ears, and a real micro switch (found a great supplyer, and 2 are in the post) ,And a real MQ1 board (not to mention the interior workings
I could seriously blow my horn about these for pages but i wont, I seriouslly hope E desides to do a run becouse they will be the perfect finishing peice for a PP2, rotj or sandy style helmets

cheers mate dunno about that much, all though there is a bit of work in these, but its all about the community, i have all intentions off running these, just see what some of the other champions here have to say. the good thing about having casts over machined is that its a non sterile, you will actually have a cast of what i have, the right amount of parallel finger grips, the 15 the way it stamped on my originals, and the diameter, as the files increment is size as they go up, some small blemishes are inherited all thats missing is the paint but that is something i will persist with to test as discussed above. obviously with machining i would endeavour to take the originals to the manufaturer for 3d cad machining/lasercutting? to have them as close to possible ect.

Originally Posted by stormtrooperguy

while i'd love originals some day to go with my mq1 and other found parts, resin casts are 100% better than the nothing i have now! thanks so much for the effort on this!

Originally Posted by stormtrooperguy

I think a bolt might make them be in too perfectly. I know it's probably just from having gotten beaten up over the years, but the shots where you can see them, they are crooked and uneven. The wire would lend itself nicely to that.

thanks STG so far i only plan to do 2 versions metal as passed on to the other guys to trial and test and resin. 8mm stainless springhardned with a small loop for rentetion for the pure resin dipped as it sets, and so far as mentioned the stainless 8mm welded on the back of the CoCr castings, the other option was to maybe thread the casting sprue. i think the wire is the way to go as cheap as it sounds i reckon they would have heated the end pushed it through then either cut it or crimped,then glued or i dont think the file could have screwed in using the cutting part of it as its just to fine this number file the larger sizes the 70 and 90's sizes there would be no problem there, hoping Art can shed light here.

Originally Posted by Fett 4 Real

The metal cast was exactly what I was talking about!

should be hitting you soon, posted last friday

Originally Posted by Fett 4 Real

Im excited man spoke with Art on this yesterday and as far as I can tell from pics of inside the helmet the MQ1 does NOT hold the files but a seperate peice of plastic, the MQ1 is cut in half and where the files are is a piece of plastic not the MQ1 bottom half as it resides in the gauntlet with the keypad.

Also I spoke with Nathan and I just from the pics and jinto your gonna have to make ALOT of these. I know Im gonna want more for sure

ok so thanks for clearing that up, as i dont have the lid to di-sect i didnt know what it was, all i could do was go by the pics in the gallery, and as jinto said as well. so does that mean we have to cut our mq1 boards in half (crying) lol.

Jinto making them i thought i was?



F4R u gonna help me with that little errand it that still cool

[QUOTE=Fett 4 Real;532837]yessir I am got it covered, Im gonna grab some blue and red of that paint and see how it turns out, if not can u andonize the stuff u used? I may know someone who can do it...or powdercoat it? This is if the paint doesnt work out on it...as for the MQ1 in theory yes...the top is deffinately the MQ1 no paint on the backside and the lower half is black plastic molded to the curve of the keyslots...
ROTJ helmet

ESB helmet.

The low melt alloy, yes can be colored but with the CoCr they have to be painted after which I'm sure the originals are as the paint is very easy to mark and as stated the paint after so many sterilizations brings them back to raw metal.

So Im convinced the ROTJ hero pack at least, was one of the prepro packs and would have a red 15 on it next to the stabilizer, need to do some mods to my pack anyhow, seeing a few things that have changed my opinion on certain colors...something to do while paint dries on the GMH hehe

I dont know if ive just been staring at to many fett pics but PP2 16a.jpg
Is it just me or does this image of the PP2 suit , taken for the Kenner pics seem to have a file in each key slot all 6 ?

EDIT]
Looks like it is just an added extra drwn on to the image , like the blaster bolt , so you can all relax

Originally Posted by JimmyC

Any ideas on when you are going to start selling these? awesome work! i feel like i owe you a beer or something...

as soon as i can at this stage is all i can say, just waiting on some feedback ect, meet you at the cantina for that beer, bit of spice and a shifty hand under the table for some nub action LOL

Originally Posted by volkerc

they can be found

congratz, im happy to see some of the information given was able to help you with finding some originals

Originally Posted by volkerc

they can be found

Nice work volkerc,

the Mic tube ?