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  1. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 10, 2013, 1:58 PM - ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #1

    Hi all, been looking at the barrel mounts of the ESB EE3 for a little while in order to try to ascertain if the parts can be identified. I did look for an existing thread to add to but couldn’t find one discussing the issue in depth (I await Raf to immediately link one) so please accept apologies if this is really old ground, oh and apologies for yet another really long post.

    Have looked at the gallery in some depth and played my BD frame by frame many times to try to ascertain the properties of each and these are my observations thus far:

    I believe that the barrel mounts are comprised of two separate pieces – the bit that circles the barrel/flash and the small piece that sits atop length ways (with the two little eyes). So far I’ve been looking mainly at the circular part. The first thing that strikes me is that the rings are quite thick (deep) in how far they extend outwards and based on their size in relation to the other known parts must be at least 2mm and maybe up to 3mm. The Webley barrel at the thinnest point (the end) is at least 2mm thick and the front ring at least appears slightly larger than that. The rear ring seems to have a similar thickness. In addition based on the available material I would suspect that the part was painted black and not necessarily found that colour. I'm not even convinced they're metal but may be white plastic.

    Observations:

    The front ring is not continuous and has a clear gap under the flash.

    Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - Executor Bridge - The Dented Helmet Gallery

    This front ring appears to be secured with two screws (or threaded cylinders) and rings/washers.

    Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - The Dented Helmet Gallery

    The apex type section at the top has a central vertical ridge contained within. This vertical section does not seem to be flush to the ring that encapsulates the barrel. I haven’t been able to decide if i think this ridge is circular/curved or squared off.

    Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - Executor Bridge - The Dented Helmet Gallery

    I believe ridge is may actually be the outer wall of a channel through which a screw or bolt would pass in order to attach the rings to something else (for whatever the original purpose was – a wall or whatever)

    I believe that the rear ring is a continuous circle that has no break in it at all. This shot shows to some degree as do others (I don’t want to link every image in the gallery).

    Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - Interrogation - The Dented Helmet Gallery

    That same image also makes me believe that whatever secures the rear ring may be the same in nature as the front screws i.e. one large screw/bolt.

    In this image it appears to me that the rear securing item does not extend to the extremities/width of the rear ring and there is a small highlight above it consistent with the washer on the front securing ring.

    Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - Carbon Chamber - The Dented Helmet Gallery
    That same shot would also indicate that the rings are at least 15mm wide/thick (from left to right – I’m confusing myself!)


    I’ve read several ideas previously on what they might be. I don’t think that either is any kind of sprung loaded clip. I’ve spent some time looking through lots of old stuff (I spend my time looking at old vacuum cleaners, hairdryers, car parts, Haynes Manuals etc).
    Items like this have caught my eye, it’s a plumbing part for Koi Carp enthusiasts.



    I would really appreciate some input and discussion to help the search.

    As an aside looking at this made me notice something on my old friend the scope. The definition on the eyepiece (front/branded eyepiece) is really sharp. This isn't the only shot that makes me think this and not that it makes a massive amount of difference but is this scope a type 2/plastic eyepiece?

    Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - Executor Bridge BTS - The Dented Helmet Gallery
    Last edited by intwenothor; Mar 10, 2013 at 2:03 PM. Reason: punctuation
  2. FettFanatic's Avatar
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    Mar 10, 2013, 5:58 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #2

    That looks like a good start. Is there a name for that part?
  3. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 11, 2013, 1:17 AM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #3

  4. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 13, 2013, 7:06 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #4

    Done some basic measuring using this picture as a guide (by comparing the length of the barrel section with the length of my own webley)
    Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - Executor Bridge BTS - The Dented Helmet Gallery
    and it appears to me that the barrel mounts would be 1.5" and 2" diametre at the point that they attach to the MPP and Webley respectively. This would fit nicely with the still fully imperial measurements used in GB up until 1995.
    Anyhow found a different pipe clip that I like more than t'other "40 mm Nominal Bore Maclow Flexible Clips (1.5"). Pipe OD: 48.3mm"



    Obviously I know that this is a modern part but I was interested by the ridge in the cental apex section. It does not sit flush as per the other example from the Koi shop. Also comes in a variety if sizes including 2" so I've ordered some to see what they look like. Unfortunately the arms are a bit short and the 2" is not continuous and would not encompass the whole barrel but it should be interesting to get a feel for them.

    Incidently my measurements would also suggest that the MPP extends by roughly 120mm (which is slightly under 4 3/4"). That measurement includes the section covered by the front barrel mount. I only raise it as I have seen various length given from 4.5" to 5.5". When laying the parts out using that measurement it compares extremely well to that picture.
  5. Member Since
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    Mar 14, 2013, 2:06 AM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #5

    I've been doing this same search recently.
    My moment of clarity came while researching another area of ESB found parts... the Millennium Falcon. I noticed the two sizes of grey pipe clips used in the main hold interior set. There, they are used for their intended purpose - holding pipes to the wall.

    Detail of both sizes of pipe clips on wall:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I also found the Maclow clips to be the closest match and they come in the correct sizes. I picked them up from the same seller a couple months ago.
    The correct rear clip is the 1 1/2" one and the front is 1 1/4". Note the sizes are measured by the nominal bore (interior diameter of the pipe they are meant to hold). The actual internal diameter of the clips are 48.3mm and 42.4mm.
    The front clip is large, but it's supposed to be. Look closely at reference photos and you will notice a large gap between the top of the MPP tube and the interior edge of the clip. I do think the arms are a little short, but they're close.
    The large rear clip fits perfectly, but as you noted it's not a full ring as it clearly is on the prop. It is an open clip on the Falcon set so I'm not sure if they modified it (seems like too much work for no real gain) or there's another full ring variation of the clip.

    There are definitely several small cosmetic differences between the pipe clips on the prop and the Maclow versions, but at least they are the correct size and height. Wall thickness and internal radiuses are off. The clips are also missing semicircles in the upper interior corners.

    I've looked at several other pool clips online. Some might be a little closer dimensionally, but they don't seem to come in both sizes. Most are white 1 1/2" clips. I haven't purchased any of these yet because the sellers don't ship to the US.
    Ideally, I think we might need some UK members checking for vintage pipe clips locally (old hardware stores etc.).
  6. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 14, 2013, 10:48 AM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #6

    Chris, when you mention semi circles you have me confused. In the front clip I see a quarter circle in the upper interior corner of the apex type section but I don't see them on the rear one. The rear one seems to have empty corners. Is this what you mean by semi circles or are you referring to another area?
  7. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 14, 2013, 12:49 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #7

    Chris,
    here's what I mean in this close up.

    at '1' on the rear barrel mount I don't see any circular form in the upper interior corner and the corner seems quite sharp. It also appears to me that there is no quarter circle in the opposite corner of the same piece although slightly more difficilt to make out.

    At' '2 on the front mount I do see something akin to a quarter circle.



    What do you think to my suggestion that the rear barrel mount is secured underneath with a single bolt/screw similar to the two on the front and not two flat tabs facing each other as many believe it?
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    Mar 14, 2013, 1:18 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #8

    Quote intwenothor said: View Post
    Chris, when you mention semi circles you have me confused. In the front clip I see a quarter circle in the upper interior corner of the apex type section but I don't see them on the rear one. The rear one seems to have empty corners. Is this what you mean by semi circles or are you referring to another area?
    Correct, both clamps have the quarter circles in both upper corners.

    Quote intwenothor said: View Post
    What do you think to my suggestion that the rear barrel mount is secured underneath with a single bolt/screw similar to the two on the front and not two flat tabs facing each other as many believe it?
    Reference of that area is very limited, but I'm pretty sure it's two tabs coming together in the middle. They're rounded and there's a center hole which I assume is bolted through, but reference is not that clear.

    I'll post some images later. I don't have time right now.
  9. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 14, 2013, 1:26 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #9

    Quote lonepigeon said: View Post
    Correct, both clamps have the quarter circles in both upper corners.

    I'll post some images later. I don't have time right now.
    Look forward to the pictures. I genuinely can't see quarter circles on that rear mount which is what I see in the close up I posted. Be grateful if you could demonstrate them on the rear mount in your pictures.
  10. Mar 14, 2013, 2:03 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #10

    ooooo another interesting thread! I love these discussions!
  11. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 14, 2013, 2:05 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #11

    Quote Darth Voorhees said: View Post
    ooooo another interesting thread! I love these discussions!
    Me too but not as much as I'd love finding these pieces and putting it to bed!
  12. Mar 14, 2013, 2:25 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #12

    haha to that!
  13. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 14, 2013, 2:29 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #13

    Anyway. I think I've seen the swimming pool fitting that Lonepigeon has identified. Ordered some to look at and will post pictures on arrival. They are white as he has described and I have ordered in 1 1/2" and 2". It seems they may have the quarter circel interior corner feature (at least on one side).
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    Mar 14, 2013, 3:38 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #14

    Quote intwenothor said: View Post
    Anyway. I think I've seen the swimming pool fitting that Lonepigeon has identified. Ordered some to look at and will post pictures on arrival. They are white as he has described and I have ordered in 1 1/2" and 2". It seems they may have the quarter circel interior corner feature (at least on one side).
    Sounds like you found the same ones. In pictures I've seen it appears that the quarter circles are on one side only.
    They are likely measured the same way as the other pipe clips so you'll need 1 1/4" for the smaller one and 1 1/2" for the larger.
  15. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 14, 2013, 3:52 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #15

    They should arrive tomorrow or the next day. I'll post some decent pictures. The ones on the sites are pretty poor. Do you want a set?

    Andy
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    Mar 14, 2013, 10:03 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #16

    Quote intwenothor said: View Post
    They should arrive tomorrow or the next day. I'll post some decent pictures. The ones on the sites are pretty poor. Do you want a set?

    Andy
    Sure! They'd be nice to have even just for reference to blueprint accurate ones.

    Some pictures to illustrate my earlier points...
    The quarter circles on the rear clamp (taken from a clearer copy of the image Andy referenced above)


    Rear clamp tabs


    And here's just a nice shot of the rear clamp with the Molex connector missing

    Key features to note in this picture
    - quarter circle on inside upper corner
    - seam line running down the center of the side (modern clips seem to lack this, probably newer injection molding techniques)
    - rectangle of exposed bare clamp (I'm still guessing this is grey, although it looks white because of the harsh lighting)
    - tabs visible underneath, though washed out by lighting (photo taken on carbon freezing chamber set)
  17. Mar 15, 2013, 11:35 AM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #17

    This is gettin good guys! nice work both of ya!
  18. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 15, 2013, 2:29 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #18

    Chris, nice work on the photo's, you're right about those quarter circles and good spot on the seams. Got a couple of Maclows today. They're nice but a bit chunky on the arms. These have no seams but rather kind of spots where I'm thinking the material entered the mold. I would think that would be stronger than two joined halves? Not convinced on that rear securing though. I prefer my idea but could really use some better quality images. Thanks for posting. No swimming pool clips today. Hopefully tomorrow.

    Andy
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    Mar 15, 2013, 10:40 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #19

    Unfortunately, that's the best reference available for the rear clip.
    I'm hoping to find it used on other ESB props or sets for a better view, but no luck yet.
    At least we know enough to positively ID it when we find the correct clip/clamp.

    Looking again at the clips on the Falcon interior, I believe they used 1 1/4" and 1" pipe clips on the set. I have a few of the 1" Maclows (inner diameter is about 1 1/4").

    One detail I forgot to point out with photos in my earlier post...
    The huge gap between the front clip and the MPP tube:

    It's so big that you can see the hole that goes up through the clip.
  20. clonecollector's Avatar
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    Mar 16, 2013, 7:23 AM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #20

    Great find! The clip really looks close.
  21. RafalFett's Avatar
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    Mar 16, 2013, 12:51 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #21

    Great research here!

    Here's what I found so far:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Although the 'legs' looks a bit chubby and short, it is pretty close in form to the ones used on the EE-3 blaster. Here's the link to this part ==> PVC Pipe Clamp.

    And another one:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And the link to this part ==> Another PVC Pipe Clamp

    Looking at the front clamp, it looks like the inner diameter is smaller than the MPP tube's outer diameter, this is why the clamp legs are forced a bit outward and this might be the source of the gap between the clamp and the MPP tube:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And the front clamp is hold in place with some kind of threaded bolt or a headless screw:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm not sure about the rear attachment method...
  22. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 16, 2013, 1:36 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #22

    Right, got some clips through. Here are some pictures. The Maclow clip is grey and chunkier than the swimming pool clip (white). Unfortunately the vendor of the Maclow has decided to send me the two sizes in seperate packets so I don't have them both. Even less fortunately the swimming pool clip does not seem to come in a size smaller than 1.5 inches that I have managed to find. Both clips shown are 1.5".

    Maclow



    Swimming pool clip. I had thought that these might have had the quarter circles in the apex but alas not this model.



    Comparison



    Mounted



    Mounted 2



    I think they're pretty nice. Not perfect but pretty nice.

    Andy
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    Mar 16, 2013, 3:47 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #23

    Quote RafalFett said: View Post
    Looking at the front clamp, it looks like the inner diameter is smaller than the MPP tube's outer diameter, this is why the clamp legs are forced a bit outward and this might be the source of the gap between the clamp and the MPP tube:
    I had this thought too which is why I had ordered the smaller Maclow clip. It doesn't work that way though. These clips do not bend like that. The front clip is definitely the larger 1 1/4" size (approx 1 5/8" ID). Since the clip is so large, when it's pushed upward it leaves that gap exactly as pictured.

    Quote RafalFett said: View Post
    And the front clamp is hold in place with some kind of threaded bolt or a headless screw:
    There are actually two bolts. If they have heads, they're inside the MPP tube.
    There's also a thin silver bit visible at the base of the black bolts. I think there might be a metal plate that both bolts pass through.
    Here's an illustration of what I mean:
    FRONT CLIP ATTACHMENT

    MPP and clamp opening to scale. Other elements are approximate.
    Dark pipe clip shows actually width between "arms". Lighter areas of "arm" extension are the approximately length they should be for the bolts to go through them.

    Above illustration is based on the Maclow clips which I think are a bit too thick. The correct clips might have some flex to them so the bolts would squeeze them together for a tighter fit (and the arms would not have to be as long).
    Last edited by lonepigeon; Mar 16, 2013 at 3:52 PM.
  24. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Mar 16, 2013, 5:17 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #24

    Quote lonepigeon said: View Post
    I think there might be a metal plate that both bolts pass through.
    I think they're just steel washers.
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    Mar 16, 2013, 5:52 PM - Re: ESB EE3. Search for barrel mounts found parts discussion. #25

    Quote intwenothor said: View Post
    I think they're just steel washers.
    In this photo it looks to me like a metal strip/plate or possibly wire wrapped between the two bolts to squeeze them together.
    There's definitely something going straight across.

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