ESB EE3 Breach Greeblie(s).

Thanks DV, I had seen those but grateful you took the time to post them, I was too lazy.

Size does matter (ahem).

so they say! LOL!

This part has been urking me as well. Please keep us posted if you discover anything else it could be! Though thats definitely a good candidate!

Always interesting to dig in with this stuff! If you get a chance, can you post some shots of the con rod with part #43 and also dry fitted to the Webley the way you think it should be?

Thanks!

[COLOR="silver"]- - - Updated - - -[/COLOR]

One thing I don't like about 43 is the lack of a step around the circumference of the part that seems to be present in photos. I think that is what is so appealing about 107, though I too am thinking this might be too small. I think comparing it to the con rod measurement wise might offer some more insight.

I hear you. Shots such as the first close-up DV posted seem to indicate it is there, shots like the second close-up he posted seem to indicate it is not. But for size comparison I think using the con-rod as a guide would be helpful as it is centered on whatever the round piece is.

Originally Posted by Fettered

I hear you. Shots such as the first close-up DV posted seem to indicate it is there, shots like the second close-up he posted seem to indicate it is not. But for size comparison I think using the con-rod as a guide would be helpful as it is centered on whatever the round piece is.

I'll get my gum!

LOL

I think im getting way to happy about this thread lol

Originally Posted by Darth Voorhees

LOL

I think im getting way to happy about this thread lol

It's the gum, isn't it?

I dunno man...that looks awfully close to me. the only thing throwing me is the "teeth" I mean, they could be filled or dremeled off. Your gonna make me go buy that model lol mebbe ill make a set of these for myself and see what people think.

Oops, forgot to add this one at the start. Compares well to the last grab

The teeth throw me a little too, but so do the dark spots on the piece just above (larger dark spot) and in front of (small dark dot) the rod in the photos that include it. They don't seem to jive with the cutouts in either model part to me, but I believe intwenothor thinks those spots may be replicable with 43 though, which would be awesome.

I hope chewing gum isn't harmful to Webley patina!

That timing gear part# 43 was used on the end of Bossk's rifle.

Here's a reference on partsofstarwars: Rebley v10 (Bossk's Gun)

Originally Posted by Fettered

The teeth throw me a little too, but so do the dark spots on the piece just above (larger dark spot) and in front of (small dark dot) the rod in the photos that include it. They don't seem to jive with the cutouts in either model part to me, but I believe intwenothor thinks those spots may be replicable with 43 though, which would be awesome.

I hope chewing gum isn't harmful to Webley patina!

I didn't even give the gum a second thought. Anything that survives a war and is still around one hundred years later is not going to be phased by Wrigley's.

Also consider that part 43 is light grey from my model but that the disc is clearly painted a dark colour and that would make a massive difference.

Originally Posted by intwenothor

and consider my top picture of my Webley and Pulley Front half. There is a small 'pin' just to the left of it that is far enough away that it should be visible in any one of a number of these shots if the pulley front half were the piece used but it can't be seen in any of them. Then consider the second of my shots where the Timing gear is used, it's so much closer that the pin in right on the cusp and in it's shadow. Any slight deviation from a straight view or a view from the rear and it wold be totally obscured.

Not sure if it makes a difference to price (it will to availability) but the modern Revell Visible V8 has connecting rods, pulley front half and the Timing Gear that are identical to the 1977 model. There are differences but those pieces are the same, I think they even have the same part numbers in the different kits.

yea, theres a hobby shop a few blocks away from me that carries it. Its 59.99. I may just get it!

Originally Posted by intwenothor

Can't see the teeth there either.

Looking at that convinces me more.

yup. me as well

This is a very exciting thread! Despite having bought and epoxied what very well may be proven as an inaccurate part, this is pretty cool

No connecting rod.

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/galle...hp?photo=10996

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/galle...hp?photo=11028

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/galle...hp?photo=11036

With connecting rod

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/galle...hp?photo=11043

All too big for part 107.

Originally Posted by intwenothor

Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - Executor Bridge - The Dented Helmet Gallery

I think this shot is a strong argument for your part. It looks to me as though the three oblong/curved holes in the piece have been filled in, as you can still see the pattern.

I think the third "no connecting rod" pic also is a stong argument for the part. Like fettered said, and i see it in this pic as well, the curved slot holes seem to be there and filled in. I may really go buy this model sooner rather than later and make myself a set!

Make some copies too, Lou!

I'm agreeing 100% with the pulley wheel being too small. I thought so myself while building my kit and looking at the high res. pictures for the right positioning. This timer wheel looks like a very good match, even if they teeth of it isn't clearly visible. That could easily have been sanded away, or they are just too small to show up in the pictures.

Haha of course i would if we agreed its a better alternative to the pulley wheel. Which its looking like we are. intwenothor, i really think ya found somethin bud!

yea i agree...on both counts. Filling in the gaps between the teeth over filing them off.

Do you agree with me that the PFH (part 107) is out?

100%. I never thought it was correct....just close. Even if part 43 isnt the correct part, it sure is alot closer than 107. But i for sure think 107 is incorrect.

Makes sence. It may just be that we dont have any really really clear shots to see those teeth. So i guess 1 thing to think about is should the "sausage holes" and teeth be filled, just the slots, nothing? hmmm.

Hmmmmmmm. Sausages....

Originally Posted by intwenothor

Hmmmmmmm. Sausages....

hahahaha

I'm pretty much on-board with the piece not being 107 and think that 43 is a strong contender. I just don't see that piece of evidence that is conclusive enough to say "found!" But I'm talking about something that it is entirely possible may never happen.

The timing gear (with teeth removed) was mentioned to be a possible candidate awhile back (Boba Fett Blaster ESB)

But good to see it back up for discussion.

Originally Posted by Seven

The timing gear (with teeth removed) was mentioned to be a possible candidate awhile back (Boba Fett Blaster ESB)

But good to see it back up for discussion.

Ah yea, i see a little mention of it there. Honestly, looking at the pic posted there of that fan made blaster,that part looks even more convincing:

..plus its another source that seemed to think "43" was the right part

If the owner of this pic wants me to remove it i will. I just posted it here for members that arent on RPF.

What do you guys think...seeing it used here, with the teeth removed?

You guys are definitely onto something. Another interesting point...whoever put the sideshow blaster together chose not to use the pulley but used a larger disk instead. Now this could be for any number of reasons, but you have to figure they would have had access to different reference photos than what we currently have.

Originally Posted by Darth Voorhees

its another source that seemed to think "43" was the right part

...
What do you guys think...seeing it used here, with the teeth removed?

Actually the OP in that post never said that. To the contrary he was intentionally mum on some things, and I think using part 43 was one of his main secrets that someone else then pointed out. But the OP never addressed it. It is entirely possible that he had some information that hasn't publicly surfaced and was given such in confidence. It happens. It is just as possible that he simply did the same type of research work that intwenothor has done and just wanted to keep it to himself.

If that is the part, his orientation seems to be off (look at the sausages!). Size wise it is a ringer, as intwenothor points out.

Originally Posted by Fettered

Actually the OP in that post never said that. To the contrary he was intentionally mum on some things, and I think using part 43 was one of his main secrets that someone else then pointed out. But the OP never addressed it. It is entirely possible that he had some information that hasn't publicly surfaced and was given such in confidence. It happens. It is just as possible that he simply did the same type of research work that intwenothor has done and just wanted to keep it to himself.

If that is the part, his orientation seems to be off (look at the sausages!). Size wise it is a ringer, as intwenothor points out.

Yes i know, Seven mentioned that. Im assuming he knows more about that post. Somewhere in that post someone said it was the crankshaft gear, as they mentioned it was the same part as on Bossk's gun. I think it is entirely possible that he just did research as intwenothor has. I just wanted to show the piece on the blaster painted, mounted and without teeth(assuming seven is correct with that point)

I'm glad you did show it. That thing is a peach. Wonder why he didn't just tell everyone one what it was since it clearly is 43 without teeth?

So what are ya thinking about ti being without teeth? If it is infact, without the teeth, how does the size look to you? It looks almost dead on to me, but another set of eyes is a good thing lol

Well, it's not a good enough photo to see whether he filled or filed but I think it appears to me more that he removed them as the impression I get of size is that it's smaller. He appears to have deliberately kept the photo poor to prevent easy identification which is a pity but then i was already sold so it matters not. By the way the second photo you posted in your first post back up the top is the photo that has made me believe that the disc is on both sides of the gun. It can just be seen peaking out! There is an HD grab in the gallery but I can't link it as I'm on a fiddle smart phone. Locitus posted a link in my 'Something very, very special' thread.

Edit: Sorry, I meant fettered posted the link. It's in post 24.

Yep def on both sides. Im pretty sold that you/we have the right part here for that disc.

I'm leaning that way too. I'm also leaning towards ground teeth, though it might be worthwhile to mock up a couple of plastic discs, one of the diameter to the teeth points and one to the diameter of the teeth valleys just to see what looks better before hacking away at a $59.99 part! LOL

Originally Posted by Fettered

I'm leaning that way too. I'm also leaning towards ground teeth, though it might be worthwhile to mock up a couple of plastic discs, one of the diameter to the teeth points and one to the diameter of the teeth valleys just to see what looks better before hacking away at a $59.99 part! LOL

LOL indeed!

Only one 43 per kit.

yes i know. I think fettered meant to cut some scrap plastic to the size of the disc with and without the teeth for size mock up on the webley before any modification is done to the original part before taking a mold from it....i think...right fettered? lol

Right. Unless you really want to drop that kind of jingle. Personally I'm hoping DV will get so into this that he starts selling resin casts. Maybe a one-time only run of 43 of them.

haha...well if i make em for me, i will of course offer them. No sense in making the mold just for me!

Hmmm..that sounds appealing....maybe the first 43 will be a "sale" price lol

I found the original thread on mppc of that blaster from 2008 that seven posted a link about, and DV posted a picture of. In that thread there's a second picture not shown in the RPF thread and there is no doubt what so ever that the teeth of the gear had been grinded down on that blaster. The edges are completely flat. But then again, it is still a replica although an insanely nice one.

The point I was trying to make when stating that there is only one 43 per kit is that you would need two 43s as it would seem from the HD photo (the one dv posted in his first post that I mentioned a few posts back) that there is a disc on each side. So you would need two kits.

Ah i see..this is true if your going for all original found parts. Since my webley is a cast im ok with castings of the part or using a casting on the "back" side and the actual part on the front. I did that with my am plugs..the back is a casting front is found items.

I don't agree on part 43, too many details are missing/incorrect/inconsistent across different pictures (also the central stub is much too tall).

How about this:


SAS

That looks really close Sidewinder. The only thing I see in the reference pics is a small raised rim around the very outside edge.

I think that's just differences in finish due to eg. paint wear.

SAS

Sidewinder--to me that does indeed look good based on the images we have. I am assuming that this is a part that you made, and not a found item correct?

Correct, made out of resin cylinder, turned on lathe. I suspect there may be one more large & small hole hidden by the conrod perhaps in a cross pattern with the visible ones.

SAS

That does look great Sidewinder. I actually had something like that i was making with just ABS sheet, much more crude, lol but basically i was trying to replicate what i saw.

I would love to know what that part really is though....assuming it is a found item. Looking at the replica you made there..it could be a metal gearlike part, possibly from a beltdrive turntable or something similar. It looks strangely like...something ive seen lol...just cant pinpoint it

That's not bad Sidewinder but what about the raised section in the centre of the disc that can clearly be seen in movie shots where the connecting rod is missing? Your disc looks to be almost completely flat. Check post 13 and it is clear that the raised section sits up quite a bit.

I thought you were firmly in the part 107 camp, what changed you mind?

I have to agree with Sidewinder on this.

I agree with the OP's observation that the fly wheel or whatever that part is that has been used in the past, is definitely NOT the part, but the toothed gear is not the part either. All you have to do is look at the two photos posted earlier in this thread to see that the disc has a large hole at the 12 o'clock position and a small hole at the 3 o'clock position, just as Sidewinder pointed out. It has virtually none of the markings of the toothed gear. In my opinion, this part has still yet to be found.

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

I don't agree on part 43, too many details are missing/incorrect/inconsistent across different pictures (also the central stub is much too tall).

How about this:


SAS

Originally Posted by Art Andrews

the disc has a large hole at the 12 o'clock position and a small hole at the 3 o'clock position

While I don't have the benefit of having the part in had as intwenothor does, this has been my hangup with 43 as well, more so than even the teeth.

Can I ask what history we know (or surmise) about the origins of the ESB EE-3 and what happened to it later in life?

Hm..yea that is true Art. I just had the thought that the holes were filled in on the 43 gear and part of it had fallen out to expose partial holes. But in hind sight i guess that doesnt make sense as its more likely than not that these photos were taken before filming and id think ILM was good enough to use a filler that wouldnt fall out lol.

I will say though that the 43 gear is a good base to make a part that will work. Sidewinders part looks great though...once its the way you want, you should offer those buddy...id be in for a pair!

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

I was 107 all the way mostly cos it fit nice in the space and looked good. This thread has clearly shown it's not part 107, however IMO it just as clearly demonstrates neither is it 43.
So I created my custom part based on what I see in the clearer pics on here and voila - I personally don't like it, considering it to be a bit bland(& boring?) plus ill-fitting. I still prefer 107 but that's just my taste. Still, some folks will want what is considered accurate which is why I made it.

My creation does have a centre raised portion the conrod is fitted on, here's a pic alongside the 43gear. I could make the narrower section of the tower(that goes in the conrod's hole) taller by 1mm or so and still be below the face of the conrod hole's rim - it was only a 1st attempt.



If you look at the ref pic top left of my collage you can see how close to the disc's surface the conrod is.

Using the 43gear as found pushes the conrod up too high:



SAS

I don't know. Looking at this picture ( Boba Fett Empire Strikes Back Costume - Bespin Hallway - The Dented Helmet Gallery ) it is a considerable distance between the conrod and the gun. It looks to me like the raised portion is sanded down in diameter to fit inside the conrod hole.

IMO that pic just further confirms to me that i've got the height pretty close. The smaller diameter portion of my disc's stub does fit in the conrod hole - it's just a push fit. This means with my part you can have the conrod positioned as high/low as you prefer.

Unless anyone can bring further evidence of other details i'm happy with my part as it stands (i'll add a bit onto the small dia part of the stub) and will offer it as a kit option.

SAS

Keep in mind that every greeblie we know about on the rifle is essentially unmodified. They are just found parts, slapped on. The chances of them filing off all the teeth and filling the holes on part #43 is quite a stretch. I am guessing it is simply from a part we haven't IDed yet.

Originally Posted by Darth Voorhees

Hm..yea that is true Art. I just had the thought that the holes were filled in on the 43 gear and part of it had fallen out to expose partial holes. But in hind sight i guess that doesnt make sense as its more likely than not that these photos were taken before filming and id think ILM was good enough to use a filler that wouldnt fall out lol.

I will say though that the 43 gear is a good base to make a part that will work. Sidewinders part looks great though...once its the way you want, you should offer those buddy...id be in for a pair!

in further hindsight, you are absolutely right Art. Why would they bother modding anything to that extent. they would have more liely just slapped it on there.



Sidewinder...i would love to get a set of those discs from you. LMk if thats possible thanks brothers. This is an interesting fun thread!

Will probably make a mold this weekend.

SAS

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

Will probably make a mold this weekend.

SAS

Awesome! thanks man.

Just wanted to show you guys what this looks like on my blaster. Even though its not the found part, whatever it may be, this replica that Sidewinder has made is excellent!