Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Subscribe
  1. Member Since
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    118
    Apr 12, 2013, 11:21 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #26

    Here are the new photos I promised...

    My Type 3 Rhino scope:

    Eyepiece detail:


    I was initially thinking Rhino might be related to Milbro because my early searches for info kept turning up Rhino air pellets made by Milbro. I've since seen other Rhino scopes of various sizes and styles and they seem to be their own company in the UK.

    And the A.S.I type variant:

    Note there is no period after the "I". The whole top line is centered differently than the version with the period.
    I have two Type 1's like this.
    For comparison here is the Type 2 with the full "A.S.I." marking on the Alien gun:
  2. Become a member for 90 days and create 50 posts and you won't see these ads.Register now!
  3. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Apr 13, 2013, 4:08 AM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #27

    Ooh, shockproof.

    Edit: I've updated the OP with Chris' photo's. That ASI variant has the same sheen and finish as the Sussex Armouy Type 1(b) variant that I posted. I would expect that they were part of the same batch or of the same time period.

    Not seen any of the other brands marked as shockproof before. Interesting. It looks to be in very good condition. Those scope rings look brand new. They look to be the tall feet, can you confirm?
    Last edited by intwenothor; Apr 13, 2013 at 5:07 AM.
  4. Member Since
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    118
    Apr 13, 2013, 1:17 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #28

    Quote intwenothor said: View Post
    Ooh, shockproof.

    Edit: I've updated the OP with Chris' photo's. That ASI variant has the same sheen and finish as the Sussex Armouy Type 1(b) variant that I posted. I would expect that they were part of the same batch or of the same time period.

    Not seen any of the other brands marked as shockproof before. Interesting. It looks to be in very good condition. Those scope rings look brand new. They look to be the tall feet, can you confirm?
    Yes, they are the tall feet and in pretty nice condition. The screws on the scope feet and knob base are a little rusty, but overall it's in great shape.
  5. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Apr 14, 2013, 4:59 AM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #29

    Cheers Chris.

    Factual update on Jason Brand scopes. Op Edited.


    "Jason scopes are in fact Jason/Empire formerly of Kansas City Missouri. It appears they stopped trading circa 1985 and may have been bought out or taken over by Bushnell (unconfirmed). The only definite information I have been able to find thus far is on a line of scopes that this company imported (probably from Japan but not confirmed) between 1969 and 1971. The scope we are interested in is not contained in the list of scopes I have found for those dates. As this is now confirmed as an American brand no doubt I will have great difficulty acquiring one so if any of us are going to see this model it will most likely be someone in North America. This company seems primarily to have been concerned in the sale of Binoculars, spotting scopes and telescopes all of which were (apparently) imported from Japan. The search continues."

    Live dream.

    Andy
  6. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Apr 26, 2013, 8:47 AM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #30

    Just when I thought I was out!



    I really thought I was done with this thread (pending the elusive Jason) but I became intrigued by Lonepigeon's post 18/26 revelation of the Rhino scope and so set to looking for one. As luck would have it one turned up almost instantly on eBay UK so I put a bid or two in. From the auction picture I thought I was bidding on a Type 2 as it was plain the eyepiece was plastic and that the objective bell was as per types 1 and 2. However when it turned up (I won with a whopping bid of £5.15) I saw straight away that it was something different and if I think types 1 to 3 are different enough to merit their own types then this must be different enought to be another one: welcome type 4..

    A Rhino 4x20 Scope Type 4 plastic eyepiece


    The Type 4 shares in common feature from both both types 2 (and 1 as they are the same but for the eyepiece) and type 3 as well as a new feature of it's own. The objective bell is as per types 1 and 2 and has the larger lip. It can also be unscrewed whereas we know that type 3 cannot. The tube, saddle, elevation and windage screws et al are the same as they are on all previous types. The locking ring is as per the type 3 with the longer and deeper grooves. The eyepiece is plastic as per the type 2 and 3 but there is an addition of a ring added to the extremity of the ocular section that makes this eyepiece longer than the other two plastic types. The ring does not seem to unscrew (or I am not prepared to try hard enough to make it/break it) and is fixed in situ. I have checked my other type 2 scopes and it is not the case that they are missing something that this type 4 has present; there is no placement on those scopes for this section to be added. This is something I have not seen before. Apart from the extra ring the eyepiece is otherwise identical in terms of dimensions, angle and taper.

    In the following pictures the ASI is the type 2, the Milbro the 3 and the Rhino the 4.

    A full comparison of types 2, 3 and 4


    A comparison of Plastic eyepieces

    Both Rhino and Milbro with incorrect locking ring.

    Closeup of type 2 and 4 Plastic eyepiece ends


    Eyepieces removed to show height (length) difference


    So, there we have it; another type of variant on this model of vintage 4x20 telescopic sight. I'd say that in terms of production dates that this probably came after the type 2 and before the type 3 so in reality the type 3 should be the type 4 and this should be the type 3 but that would cause unnecessary confusion and a heck of a lot of editing so rather than over complicate things I'll leave things alone . OP edited with new model. There are other edits to the OP that I have made recently without bumping, I considered them too trivial to merit bringing this back to the top whereas I think this merits it. So far as I can remember I posted original instructions for both ASI and Milbro scopes and a poster for the Rhino brand with a model shown top left (model 204) that would be similar to our favourite son. In actual fact it is not identical to our boy but appears to me to bear more than a passing resemblance to the Original Model 7 4x20 telescopic sight. Not to digress too much but please accept that the scan is not as clear as the original but I'd say that the Rhino model 204 pictured in the poster and the Original Model 7 4 x 20 were absolutely 100% identical. I'm no expert on the Model 7 but I know enough to know that certain models of it were used on other props (Evazan and the Bowcaster - Maybe?) so anyone looking for one of those should consider the Rhino 204 as well.

    Must.
    Get.
    Out.
    More.

    Andy.
    Last edited by intwenothor; Apr 26, 2013 at 9:40 AM. Reason: Info on Original Model 7 4x20 scope
  7. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Aug 14, 2013, 4:45 AM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #31

    Er...............Yeah so here we are again. I know this is an old thread but was really surprised by this. I had continued occasionally looking at these scopes in order to try and track down a Jason, the last of the six known branded scopes that I hadn't seen. Unfortunately I still haven't found a Jason but I stumbled across another in my search; a Webley and Scott 4x20 vintage scope with correct infinity symbol. This is the first and only time I ever seen one of these and I have never seen or heard of anyone else referring to it so I'm guessing this is the first time most of us have seen it. This one came as a type 2 with a type C mount. An exceptionally rare scope.

    I had seen plenty of Webley 4x15 scopes with the infinity symbol in the past and so always wondered why no 4x20 version but as I now know it exists it raises another question. As ASI and Milbro both do 4x15 infinity symbol models (and 4x20 versions of course) it makes me wonder about other brands. At least two other brands: KASSNAR & 'World Famous' definitely do a 4x15 infinity symbol scope that is identical to the ASI, Milbro and Webley (4x15) versions I have seen so they may both do a correct 4x20 too! How many of these are there????

    In any event my money is still on the Hunter.

    Webley and Scott 4x20 Type 2 Scope plastic eyepiece






    EDIT 04/10/2013:

    For some reason I can't update the original post so I've added the latest update here.

    A new variation of the Sussex armoury. All of the other different brand markings I'd seen more than once but this is something I'd never seen before. It's a Type 2 plastic eyepiece scope (came with a C mount as per ALL Sussex just as ALL ASI scopes come with type D). If the picture is unclear then let me clarify that the code number is 1620 (no idea) and the animal is the head of a Jackal (the unofficial symbol of Sussex Armoury). The Infinity symbol is on the reverse and also pictured.

    Andy

    Sussex Armoury type 2(b) Plastic Eyepiece with Jackal's head


    Last edited by intwenothor; Oct 4, 2013 at 8:47 AM.
  8. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Feb 2, 2014, 12:03 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #32

    Sigh, another brand but still not found a Jason yet. Of interest to those of you in the Americas is the fact that I have now seen the sister 4x15 infinity scope made by Crosman (picture in OP) so those of you over there looking for a scope should consider paying closer attention to older Crosman scopes; it's probably out there and it will probably be easier to buy an old US brand in the US than an old British brand in the US. Good luck!

    OP updated.

    Andy

    Birmingham Small Arms (BSA) 4x20 Scope

    The BSA is a late discovery and the one pictured represents the only time I have seen the correct scope made by BSA. This particular one was sold on ebay in February 2014. I did place a small bid on it but did not win the auction as I wasn't prepared to bid high; the reason being that the particular scope sold has a rail fitted to it. I have seen several brands with rails fitted, most notably on the ASI, but I am unsure if the rails are factory or owner fitted. I do think the rail gives a better attachment than the receiver ring types of most interest to Fett fans as do one piece mounts used by some other brands e.g. The Sussex Armoury. The rings we are most interested in are actually pretty rubbish for the intended purpose and often work themselves loose.

    These are pictures from ebay so are not the best quality but better than nothing. The brand marks on this scope have been partially rubbed off but the remains of the infinity symbol can be seen just to the right of the 'N' of the partially removed 'JAPAN'. I have circled it in red for ease of identification; there is no red circle on the actual scope. This particular model appears to be of the Type 3 variety but it is difficult to say for certain without holding it or having a better photo to view. Be careful with the BSA brand; I have seen another BSA 4x20 bearing identical marking with correct infinity symbol that is not the correct scope (eyepiece too short, windage/elevation/saddle completely incorrect and back to front, wrong tube ratios and incorrect bell).

    More info on BSA here. After a government bailout in '73 they were eventually sold to Gamo/El Gamo in '86.
    Birmingham Small Arms Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A BSA 4x20 type 3 scope.


    BSA Scope with rail fitted.

  9. bcurtis's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    563
    Mar 27, 2014, 2:49 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #33

    Hey Andy, I PM'd you with the photos of the Milbro I just received. It appears to be a type 2.
    Last edited by bcurtis; Mar 28, 2014 at 11:23 AM.
  10. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Mar 28, 2014, 3:23 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #34

    It is indeed meaning that alongside the Hunter brand I would consider Milbro to be a very strong candidate for the brand used on the original props. Great score for $17 (or whatever paltry sum you paid for it). Sweet!

  11. RobaFett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    370
    Jul 21, 2014, 7:24 AM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #35


    Is this scope of any interest? Universal made in Florida
  12. bcurtis's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    563
    Jul 21, 2014, 8:40 AM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #36

    I had a Universal at one time. The tube diameter was too large on mine though. I think it was around 1" or something. What are the dimensions of your scope (length and tube diameter)?
  13. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Jul 22, 2014, 12:20 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #37

    It's an interesting looking scope but doesn't look to be a match to our boy on the face of it but it might well pass; the conical dust caps are a help I think in making the scope look a lot more accurate. The flat top ones give themselves away pretty much straight away even if the rest of the scope looks pretty close as most modern 4x20s do.

    On another subject I have managed a small advance in my research of the elusive Jason scope. The below scope typifies much of the research I have done on these scopes - I bought it knowing exactly what it was and that it wasn't what I was really looking for but I thought it might expand my knowledge of this model and the Jason brand that little bit more. It is essentially the 4x15 version of the EE3 scope and the same as the other known 4x15 clones in this line such as the ASI, Crosman, Hunter, Kassnar, Milbro, Relum, Webley and Scott, and World Famous (although mounts vary on these brands as they do on the 4x20s). The important thing with this one was that it was 'New Old stock' and came with the original box and some original Bumpf. It cost me around £25.

    Jason Empire Sportsman Riflescope Model 862C 4x15 (type 2 plastic) with Original Box and type C Mount.

    Reverse of box does state 'Japan'.

    Eyepiece Closeup. There are no infinity symbol or 'made in Japan' markings.


    Inside material (and reverse where present).


    For those outside the US, as I am, it would seem that Curt Gowdy was a famous sports commentator and that this is a straight up marketing deal: Corrections welcome, I had to look him up.


    Live the dream.

    Andy


  14. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Feb 21, 2015, 2:36 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #38

    and another...

    I'm afraid I cannot find any information on this brand for much the same reasons as I couldn't with the Hunter brand but there it is; it definitely exists as we can see. This looks like a type three scope to my eyes. Never heard of this brand before in any capacity whatsoever let alone in relation to this particular model of scope.

    Panorama 4x20 Rifles Scope with Type C mount




    here's the eyepiece closeup. Never seen the TJK marking before so it may be a clue as to the source brand if anyone knows

  15. MLS's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    352
    Feb 21, 2015, 3:39 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #39

    I think it's a Hawke.
  16. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Feb 21, 2015, 7:53 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #40

    As a scope brand i.e. Hawke scopes?
  17. MLS's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    352
    Feb 21, 2015, 8:00 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #41

    In a google search including "panorama" and other keywords I came across 'Hawke optics' or something of that nature.
    They seem to be making budget run of the mill 4x20s now that look similar to most low end 4x20s. It's possible that 40 years ago the "standard" run of the mill 4x20 scope was being produced by hawke, rhino, hunter, etc.
    I did not find any definitive proof of this being a Hawke, other than some quick image searching showing modern hawke panorama 4x20s (which are basic scopes that we see all the time in builds).
  18. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Feb 21, 2015, 8:14 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #42

    Okay gotcha. I did see the Hawke Panorama line but didn't see anything conclusive enough to form the link. Panorama is obviously a word synomynous with all things optic and sight based which is why I likened it to the Hunter range in being difficult to find anything meaningful. I was hoping the TJK might have thrown something up
  19. MLS's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    352
    Feb 21, 2015, 8:21 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #43

    For sure. I looked into it a few mins ago and found the same. There was as line- as im sure you saw, of hawke panorama scopes, but I didn't see any modern 4x20s. Im sure you'll get to the bottom of this.
  20. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Feb 21, 2015, 8:34 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #44

    Hmm, I doubt it. I didn't with the Hunter. I don't really look for these scopes too much anymore. I have a look on ebay once a week which is where I saw this but I don't actively look in a getting off my backside and leaving the house kind of way that I once did.
  21. RafalFett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    2,819
    Feb 22, 2015, 2:26 AM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #45

    A bit offtopic, but I bought a Panorama hand telescope a while back, which is a great candidate for the Supertrooper/Pre-Pro/Promo sling guns ==> RafalFett Strikes Back... with the 4th Shin Tool! - Post #26. There's no info on the telescope, except these: panOrama and 25 x 30mm, while on the side of the box is this number 689 373 and a hand written text in german on the bottom - opa hätte das gerne nach gebrauch wieder 'opa' - which I translated to this - grandpa would like to use it again 'grandpa' -.
  22. Member Since
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8
    Mar 25, 2015, 3:02 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #46

    Figured I should post this.

    Got a Hunter 4x20 to replace my Webley 4x20 and before I shipped the Webley off to the new owner I took a few pics with my phone.

    They're essentially the same size of course minus the differences pointed out in the OP.









  23. intwenothor's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    830
    Mar 27, 2015, 11:12 AM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #47

    Hey Scottjua, thanks for posting those pictures, the Hunter is the king for me for sure but it really could be any of them. I have some questions about your Webley scope pictured here. You have said they are essentially the same but to me they look quite different. The eyepiece on that Webley looks shorter; I've seen these scopes before but never held one (I think the Brand was 'Zenith' maybe) and although everything else is pretty much the same these shorter eyepieces have the S in circle symbol rather than the infinity sign. Was there a symbol of any kind on the Webley? Secondly, is the locking ring the unaltered original that came with the scopes? It looks the same as the metal ones featured on some of the 'Original Model 7' 4x20 scopes and is quite different from the plastic ones featured earlier on in the thread. Is it metal? Both of the scopes pictured seem to be missing the retention ring on the objective bell. Most 4x20s of the period should fit. Nikko Mounties 4x20s are pretty common and do fit if you're going to look for one...

    Lastly and unrelated to your post here's another brand

    Kassnar 4x20 Scope





    There's no infinity symbol (no symbol at all actually) which is odd but there it is. It's of the kind I call 2.5 and the C Mount is original to the scope. It's in good condition. I guess that makes eleven. I think.


  24. Member Since
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8
    Mar 27, 2015, 1:37 PM - Re: EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types #48

    Quote intwenothor said: View Post
    Hey Scottjua, thanks for posting those pictures, the Hunter is the king for me for sure but it really could be any of them. I have some questions about your Webley scope pictured here. You have said they are essentially the same but to me they look quite different. The eyepiece on that Webley looks shorter; I've seen these scopes before but never held one (I think the Brand was 'Zenith' maybe) and although everything else is pretty much the same these shorter eyepieces have the S in circle symbol rather than the infinity sign. Was there a symbol of any kind on the Webley? Secondly, is the locking ring the unaltered original that came with the scopes? It looks the same as the metal ones featured on some of the 'Original Model 7' 4x20 scopes and is quite different from the plastic ones featured earlier on in the thread. Is it metal? Both of the scopes pictured seem to be missing the retention ring on the objective bell. Most 4x20s of the period should fit. Nikko Mounties 4x20s are pretty common and do fit if you're going to look for one...
    The hunter came to me exactly as pictured.... except I moved the mounting feet in the "Boba" positions.

    Ok, I shouldn't have said essentially the same as the following "except the differences pointed out in the OP" pretty much negated that...

    The Webley came to me with a BSA, and Nikko Stirling. I MAY be remembering wrong... but I think I took the locking ring from the BSA and put it on the Webley since it was missing one all together. The Webley came just like yours pictured above... with the same infinity symbol in the same spot, and same mount. No pics of the symbol... I shipped it off already.

    The windage caps were missing too, and I got those from a Universal 4x15, and they were slightly too big, so I shimmed the threads and then they stayed on snug.

    So it had issues.

    I think the eyepiece looking shorter is due to camera lens distortion. I didn't measure them though to be fair.

    Also, yeah I'll have to look for a retention ring. Are we sure the prop scope had it?

    This scope hunt has been fun, but I'm ready to put it behind me and get the last part I need, the "pool clamps" or whatever the hell holds everything to the webley and mpp. I wish I could find the real parts as most everything else on this one will be.
    Last edited by scottjua; Mar 27, 2015 at 1:47 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Blaster: ROTJ EE3. How did I do?
    By JodoKast89 in forum Boba Fett Costume
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Jan 14, 2013, 9:41 AM
  2. Scope came off my Hyperfirm ROTJ EE3 - How to fix?
    By Caomhanach in forum Boba Fett Costume
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Dec 6, 2011, 10:43 AM
  3. two kinds of scopes?
    By EVO3 in forum Boba Fett Costume
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jun 26, 2004, 9:22 AM
  4. Types of helmets available..
    By Badger in forum Boba Fett Helmet
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Jul 3, 2003, 4:09 PM